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 Islam and Modernity

 I debated whether this was indeed the right forum to place this post. Though not about architecture, the interview with Abdolkarim Soroush entitled "Responsibilities of the Muslim Intellectual in the 21st Century", deals with Islam and Modernity. This is really the basis for many of the discussions taking place today in the ArchNet Discussion Forum, whether it be about the nature of Islamic Architecture or problems facing societies in developing countries.

"Professor Abdolkarim Soroush is an Iranian philosopher and social scientist who is currently based at the Institute for Epistemological Research in Tehran, Iran. A well-known scholar and Islamist intellectual in Iran and abroad, his writings have been widely disseminated both in print and via the Internet." (From Muslim Wakeup).

It really is a very important article and one that may help us frame our debate in other areas. Please read the interview and lets discuss. Read the interview I would like to keep this discussion on the conceptual level rather than the dogmatic one as I do not want to offend anyone or get in to an debate about what is the true Islam.

 -- Shiraz Allibhai, December 9, 2003

 Responses

Islam and Modernity

Dear Shiraz,

Thanks for posting this very important interview of Professor Abdolkarim Soroush on "the Responsibility of the Muslim intellectual in the 21st Century." It makes a great reading.

While there are many issues arising from the interview that we need to discuss on the ArchNet, I would like to begin with the issue of "correct" understanding of the terms "Islam" and "Modernity".

Now, that will put off so many of our members who are perhaps fed up of this endless debate of definitions! I am a great believer in so called endless things and processes e.g. endless peace talks ( On that I have written in the Journal of the Indian Institute of Architects It is the only possible way to solve issues between India and Pakistan or Israel and Palestine or South Korea and North Korea or North Ireland and Great Britain!).

At the outset kindly do not take my opinions as authoritative statements but they may be treated as questions and exploration by a student of Islam, philosophy and architecture, who is just learning!

The understanding of time in terms of a religion (Islam, Hinduism, Christianity, Buddhism, etc) is a fascinating subject. Time as in our case of Islam, and time as we commonly understand in our contemporary way of life is similar in many a respect and different in some many other ways.

Like Islam talks about the Allah's creation from the day of creation to the end of the world, the day of judgment and the world hereafter. This also reflects time.

Contemporary science would talk about the theory of black hole etc as speculations about the origin of cosmos, possible doom brought about by some chance catastrophic phenomenon and
the space sciences and remaining
remaining time-space as the unknown.

So what is modern? If one were to probe through the literature, one would find that the term has been used many a time over centuries. Every time there was a new light and revolutionary change in thinking, there was a reference to modern. It has been used surely before the recent changes brought about by the industrial revolution. To talk of pre-modern, modern and post-modern may seem adequate for a human being concerned with life span and some period before and after. But when we discuss religion and contemporary thought and philosophy it may be grossly inadequate.

I would like to claim that Islam brought about a revolution in human understanding, and that "new light" and "new knowledge "that it revealed, was the beginning of the Modernity. It put the humanity on the course for search for truth, reason, justice, knowledge and unity.

It was marked with principles of freedom to seek truth, equality before law, justice for all, priority for the needy and poor, concern for neighbors and community, peace for all, harmony between different peoples, balances in our actions and thoughts, austerity and unwastefulness, responsibilities to nature and each other, being kind, caring and loving, being humble and helpful, right to faiths, quality of life, quest for perfection, search for spirituality in life and thereafter, unity of humankind and unity with God.

These are the themes that have been taken up the European theologists, scholars, thinkers and philosophers, scientists, artists and architects over period of time and particularly since 16th-17the century- scientific revolution and 18th-19th century industrial revolution.

We need to be critical about these terms that contain the philosophy, political and economic agenda within.

We are compelled to think when we use such terms as "modernity" in a particular way, we have to use it in "acceptable modern sense of the term". Who shall decide what is acceptable? When does the usage become acceptable? We no longer remain free in our critical thinking. In the process, one begins to accept the so called acceptable meanings of the terms. We then reduce Islam to an empire ( in political term) or a mere life-style
( in arts and architecture) rather than understand it as an Universal Value System ( to use the terms that we are familiar with).

Islam as I understand it has shown us the new light to all of us, including to the Muslim intellectuals, for all time to come, and not just the 20th or 21st century.

The question is have we opened our eyes fully or more critically? Have we opened the Mind's eye? Are we following the correct path? or the straight path? or the open way that Islam has guided us to?

This is not to deny many of the issues pointed out by Prof. Abdolkarim Soroush, but at the outset I wish to have a correct perspective. Here is some reading from the Holy Quran:

Falaq or the Dawn / the Daybreak
Sura CXIII 1-5

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

1. Say: I seek refuge
with the Lord of the Dawn (Daybreak)

2. From the mischief
of created things;

3. From the mischief
Of Darkness as it overspreads;

4. From the mischief
Of those who practice
Secret Arts;

5. And from the mischief
Of the envious one
As he practices envy.

Amen,

with warm regards,

-- Akhtar Chauhan, December 9, 2003

Islam and Modernity

Akhtar, thank you for your thoughtful post as always. I do not think that what you are saying is fundamentally different than what Soroush was advocating.

Soroush states, "You speak of Islam and you speak of modernity as two separate themes or ideas, but we need to remind ourselves from the outset that the two of them are abstract concepts that are not and cannot be reduced to simple categories. First of all we have the phenomenon of Islam. Muslim intellectuals still talk about Islam as if it were a simple, unified entity; a singular object. But in reality the history of Islam, like the history of other religions such as Christianity, is fundamentally a history of different interpretations."

He goes on to speak about Modernity stating, "We Muslims need to recognize that we live in the modern world whether we like it or not. But the modern age in which we find ourselves is not a homogeneous one. The four pillars of modernity are modern concepts, conceptions, means and ends. These in turn shape the pluralistic and heterodox worldview of modern life. The plurality of modernity's means that there exist many different ways through which people understand themselves in the world today. The modern age has given us modern conceptions, such as the conception of God, of Prophet hood, etc. The modern age also furnishes us with modern ends, such as modern notions of happiness, meaning of life and so on. Today, Muslims must accept that many of our beliefs and assumptions are also shaped and drawn by modern concepts and ideas related to history, geography, time and space."

I would agree on the principles and values that Islam has revealed to mankind, but revealing is an act of God, but the other half which is understanding is an act of man. Its okay to state all these wonderful notions about enlightenment, equality, rule of law, ect, however it is a completely separate matter to intellectually understand the concepts and put them to practice.

Soroush ends by stating, "The modern Muslim intellectual is one who is not daunted by the task of delving into his or her religious knowledge for critical answers and solutions to the present. Such intellectuals are better able to do so because they are not the product of a traditional educational system which is narrow and rigid. They are not bound by traditional norms and rules of religious discursive activity, because they are not really part of that particular narrow tradition."

And finally he ends with, "The modern Muslim intellectual stands to serve the needs of other communities as well when he or she begins to question and rethink the premises of both Islamic discourse and modern discourse simultaneously. He or she can also show to the non-Muslim world how complex Islam truly is, once he or she brings to the surface the internal dynamics of Islamic discourse"

Again, I am not sure where your understanding is opposed to Soroush's dialogue. Perhaps I missed the point.

-- Shiraz Allibhai, December 10, 2003

Islam and Modernity

Dear Shiraz,

My idea of discussion to is to explore the meanings, through testing its expanse, its depth and to find out what relevance it has to our context, so that we can apply the understanding to improve quality of life, by identifying the issues and addressing them through some good work / action / thoughts.

Modern is a simple term that relates to immediate periods of time and the change it brings in certain aspects or fields. It has been used simply as a synonym of contemporary, new, current, renovated, improved but it is more often seen as modern in style, chic, smart, fashionable etc.!

And on the other hand, Islam is reduced to a style that is outdated, traditional, orthodox, tyrannical, unintelligent, non-creative, dogmatic, way of life, whereas it is a universal value system in which change, creativity, improvement, innovation, development, progress and evolution are integral processes.

"You speak of Islam and you speak of modernity as two separate themes or ideas, but we need to remind ourselves from the outset that the two of them are abstract concepts that are not and cannot be reduced to simple categories."

I would suggest that the interviewer wanted to focus on the contemporary issues in the context of Islam. By using modernity as a more intellectual usage he ran into this problem where meanings are very different from what he intended.

To give both these term equal value as mere abstract concepts, is problematic. Concepts are also defined as abstract ideas in Oxford dictionary. I prefer to describe Islam as a universal value system, though I am not very sure that it is able to convey the spirit of Islam. That is the problem of using English to express a way of life which is so different.

"First of all we have the phenomenon of Islam. Muslim intellectuals still talk about Islam as if it were a simple, unified entity; a singular object."

I am sure that Muslim intellectuals know that Islam is not an object however orthodox they may be. The issues are more complex as Prof. Soroush states later in the interview. I would rather prefer to qualify what kind of Muslim intellectuals Prof. Soroush was referring to, rather than putting them together in one category. Do all Muslims intellectuals think alike, that Islam is an object, no I do not think so.

"But in reality the history of Islam, like the history of other religions such as Christianity, is fundamentally a history of different interpretations."

Yes, in a way all history is a set of interpretations. But more deeply, there is the reality of unfolding in time, space and context which is more objective and there is an understanding of the process of unfolding, which is more subjective. There is always the chance of less than perfect match between the two. So through various renderings of history, through its interpretation, we tend to reconstruct the reality of history in our awareness, which is subjective but is an attempt to come closer to the objective reality of history.

Muslim intellectuals have their own range from revolutionary, evolutionary, reformist, traditionalists, orthodox, dogmatic, literary, critical, romantic, mystic, authoritarian, liberal to enlightened, to generalize them is rather inhuman. Let us see the irony of such a statement..

"Muslim intellectuals talk of Islam as if it was simple unified entity; a singular object."

Implying that non-Muslim intellectuals do not talk like this in simplistic way
and understand complexity..thus giving an impression that Muslim intellectuals are less intelligent and less critical than other intellectuals!

Though Prof. Soroush may not have intended such an implication. It is this gap in communication that leads to
certain possibilities of future
misunderstandings and conflicts.

Islam released a whole new way of thinking that found its expression in different branches and disciplines of knowledge. Muslim intellectuals, to use the term in general, were in the forefront of development of thought,
arts, sciences and technologies, but often they were misunderstood by the power centers and resulted in the tragic and sudden termination of their quests. That adversely affected the development of Islam. The power centers did interpret Islam to their advantage at the moment but when viewed in the context of overall development of Islam one may have a different viewpoint or interpretation.

I am particularly interested in identifying the ways and means of dealing with contemporary issues and problems using our own value system and other value systems, with minimum adverse impact on others.

This calls for evolving a deeper understanding and more patient, a lot
of perseverance, long term collaborative and co-operative endeavor rather than confrontation and conflict as a means to resolution of issues. Islam encourages us on this aspect with its message of peace and harmony.

I respect the views of Prof. Soroush, although I may not agree with each and every aspect of his view point. My concern is long-term, to ensure that
we evolve an environment of faith, respect and support for pursuing the quest of perfection and enrichment in various fields of human endeavor.

with warm regards,

-- Akhtar Chauhan, December 10, 2003

Islam and Modernity

Shiraz,

Thanks for posting a very informative and enlightening interview of Prof Soroush. I see his views as tolerant, broad-minded, accepting and analytical and accommodating. He comes across as a person who has his history of Islam and of the social, intellectual and political development of the world on his fingertips. And in my opinion this is the fundamental pre-requisite for comparative analysis. If one doesn't have both angles of view, bias creeps in and views become discriminatory and partial.

I fully agree with him on the role of ulema in the past and now. As over the centuries, the ulemas have receded to oblivion and have ceased to be accepted by Muslims as the guardians of Islamic thought, a major vacuum has been created in interpretation and understanding / teaching of what we may call 'progressive Islam'. This is where intellectuals come in.

Islam is a way of life. A way of life for humans in this world, to lead them on a path which will lead them to a better life in the next world. It is not composed of rituals and rites. It is not a complex collection of theories that nobody can understand and that has no practical applicability in the world. It is not a movement, neither is it a message that only philosophers or academics can understand and comment upon. It is a simple way of life, a message for humanity for a direction that differentiates between the right path and going astray. It is not the end; rather a means to a better end (After-life). When I am asked by a non-Muslim about laws and rules in Islam, I simply say that anything that appeals to your mind and common sense is what Islam preaches. Anything that seems awkward, strange or illogical is NOT Islamic; its a product of the narrow-minded interpretation of those who still live in the 6th century AD.

There is no doubt in my mind that we need enlightened, knowledgeable, analytical and progressive Muslim intellectuals who interpret the teachings of Islam in conjunction with time and space, and pull those Muslims out from a time-warp who think that Islam is a static religion and that the clock for Muslims stopped in the 6th century. The interpretations of those laws or guidelines that have been twisted by bigots or misunderstood on a mass scale need to be corrected, and the best people to do other job currently are those Muslim intellectuals whose definition has been provided by Prof Soroush in clear words.

-- Hammad Husain, December 10, 2003

Islam and Modernity

Dear Prof Akhtar,

Thanks for your critical analysis of Prof Soroush's interview.

The world is definitely round! Whether we walk eastwards or westwards, we arrive at the same point! Now we are back in a discussion on Islam! (Galileo would surely have scoffed at this slimily!!)

You have quoted Prof Soroush and then replied to his views:

++++
"Muslim intellectuals talk of Islam as if it was simple unified entity; a singular object."

Implying that non-Muslim intellectuals do not talk like this in simplistic way
and understand complexity..thus giving an impression that Muslim intellectuals are less intelligent and less critical than other intellectuals!
++++

In my opinion, there is nothing in Prof Soroush's statement that suggests that Non-Muslim intellectuals are better than Muslims. Its a matter of interpretation and the way one looks at it.

For example, if I say that the Sri Lankan Cricket team is bad, it does not imply that the Pakistan team is good or its better than the Sri Lankan team! One can extract many implications from this statement IF one tries to look for them, but this sentence simply means that the Sri Lankan team is not AS good as it ought to be or should be. Period. It is not a COMPARATIVE statement.

We need to look at the larger picture first, a larger overview both in terms of time and space and then gradually go into details. I feel we should avoid far-fetched implications and discuss the basic essence first. Unless we do the basic conceptual planning of a building, we cant get to window sash details!

Dr. Allama Iqbal (1877-1938), the famous Pakistani poet/philosopher said:

"isi roz-e-shab may ulajh kar na reh ja,
keh tairay zaman-o-makaan aur bhi hain!"

(Don't get stuck in the present limited myopic world around you... look around, you have vast frontiers and future (space & time) in front of you.

'zaman' means time
'makaan' means space

Its a continuous process and a constant search. I agree with you that Muslim intellectuals can be of all types, much the same as Modernity is not a monolithic concept, but for the sake of arguement, one can generalise what is generally perceived to be true or is true to an extent. For example I can generalise that Japanese live longer than Pakistanis (79 years : 60 years average life expectancy). But this doesn't mean that ALL Japanese will outlive ALL Pakistanis, however, statistics show that the majority will!So this generalisation is acceptable!

Shiraz, this discussion is never-ending. One can write endlessly. Now that you have opened the Pandora's box, I hope you will be a regular participant!!


Best Regards,

-- Hammad Husain, December 10, 2003

 Islam and Modernity

Dear friends,

I tried to clarify that although Prof. Soroush may not have implied that Muslim intellectuals are simplistic but his usage implies a sense of criticism.

"We Muslims need to recognize that we live in the modern world whether we like it or not. But the modern age in which we find ourselves is not a homogeneous one. The four pillars of modernity are modern concepts, conceptions, means and ends. These in turn shape the pluralistic and heterodox worldview of modern life. The plurality of modernities means that there exist many different ways through which people understand themselves in the world today. The modern age has given us modern conceptions, such as the conception of God, of Prophethood, etc. The modern age also furnishes us with modern ends, such as modern notions of happiness, meaning of life and so on. Today, Muslims must accept that many of our beliefs and assumptions are also shaped and drawn by modern concepts and ideas related to history, geography, time and space."

Now, here Prof. Soroush continues his probing of the issues that Muslims face in contemporary times. By stating that

"We Muslims need to recognize that we live in the modern world whether we like it or not" How does one understand such a statement. At one level it is an emphaises on what we Muslims should do. At another level it imples that we Muslim do not recognize that we live in a modern world.

But the modern age in which we find ourselves is not a homogeneous one. The four pillars of modernity are modern concepts, conceptions, means and ends. These in turn shape the pluralistic and heterodox worldview of modern life. The plurality of modernities means that there exist many different ways through which people understand themselves in the world today.

Yes, agreed but one must recognize that pluraity and diversity existing before the 17th century as well, it can not be ascribed to contemporary society alone.

Since Islam becomes such a difficult context to understand for our friends,
let me point out at the rich diversity of India, as provided and nurtured by Hinduism. Can any Indian except that plurality, diversity and complexity did not exist in Hindustan before the advent of "modernism"? There were many schools of thoughts, many religions, many languages, many traditions, many ways of understanding each other, indeed.

I fully agree that one needs to understand the complexities of the processes and their linkages in creating, establishment, managing and developing a social environment. Let us see how "contemporary societies" as much clearer definition of "modern societies" function with respect to the four pillars.

Modern concepts, conceptions, means and ends.

Let us take the concept of family. How does it fare in the modern times? The institution of family has changed from a joint family to nuclear family and now to broken families and single parents and individuals without any family support. Should we call this progress? One needs to probe into the feelings of a child with only one parent struggling to cope with life without the other parent to understand the false promise of freedom without responsibility.

Let us take the concept of community, the highly educated and cultured citizen does not know the next door neighbors and their families? So what kind of culture it is? The art of sharing has been eroded and in the name of competition. In the name of privacy we have lost togetherness. Alienation and loss of identity of people from each other can not be denied so easily.
Therefore, the emergence of counter-movements.

This is not to deny the all the positive contributions made since emergence of rationalism, humanism, socialism, liberalism, democracy, welfarism in the wake of age of reason and since the unfolding of scientific, industrial and technological revolution.

Prof. Abdolkarim Soroush is aware of the complexities of "modernism" but he does not seem to recognize that Muslim intellectuals are also aware of the complexity of Islamic societies as well as non-Islamic societies in "modern" times.

Yes, this may be construed as my interpretation, but then I have an equal right to interpretation just as Prof. Soroush has his right to interpretation. I recognize that Prof. Soroush is an enlightened scholar, who must have contributed to enrichment of thought and inspired purposeful actions. I would like to know more about his thoughts and actions to understand his more fully.

Here I am restricting to the interview and the way the so-called "abstract concepts" of Islam and Modern have been used.

So if we envisage that if we require a dialogue among Modern-non-Muslim intellectuals and Muslim-non-modern intellectuals and Modern-Muslim intellectuals and non-Modern-non Muslim intellectuals what kind of language we need to use!

Say for example we want to discuss the concept of sustainable development and we have Indians, Egyptians, Iranians, Chinese, Japanese, Russians, Germans, Americans, Red Indians, Pakistanis, Afghans, Greeks.. we would have to be very sensitive about the language we use and the terms that we deploy in our arguments.

I am all for further development of human societies, human development, human knowledge, science and technology, arts and culture, architecture and engineering. I only find that in no way Islam, and for that matter Christianity / Hinduism / Buddhism / Sikhism / Jainism etc. are any constraints to development. Yes, there are misinterpretations, but then misinterpretation is not restricted to Islam! Perhaps We need to evolve a more humane way of communicating!

We shall probe the issues further, and in the process deepen our understanding so it is meaningful after all to discuss.

with warm regards,

-- Akhtar Chauhan, December 10, 2003

 Islam and Modernity

I see the truth in both your posts. I am still not sure what we debating as we seem to concur on the main points. There are other essays that deal with the same subject that have been compiled into a publication produced by the Institute for the Study of Islam in the Modern World, Leiden, Netherlands. The publication is entitled "New Voices of Islam" and it is available for download in PDF format.

Lets see what others, who are more eloquent than I, have to say. Perhaps this will give us some material to disagree.

-- Shiraz Allibhai, December 11, 2003

 Islam and Modernity

Friends,

This is in continuation with what I posted earlier in response to Prof. Soroush's interview. I am sorry I am unable to restrict the length of this posting for I consider the issues are of critical importance.


"Here is where the modern Muslim intellectual comes to play his or her role. By the term 'modern Muslim intellectual' I am not referring to those whose attachment to Islam or modernity is merely nominal. These intellectuals are not the ones whose understanding of Islam is reduced to a few quotes or phrases. Nor are they the ones who think of modernity in terms of its axiological phenomena like consumerism or material development only. They are the ones who are well versed in both Islamic studies and in the understanding of modernity and its internal workings. The modern Muslim intellectual has to be one who understands the fundamental differences between Islam and modernity, and would therefore be able to bridge the gap between the two."

Islam as a process of understanding provides a framework that can be used to understand all modernity's, past, present and future. Islam does not restrict the progress or development, it only guides us to make correct choices and steers us through a straight path in a seemingly chaotic and confused world and encourages us to be righteous. What needs to be understood is the modern concepts in the light of Islam. In order to do that one has to understand Islam first!

"But in order to do this he or she has to know how and why Islam and modernity are different, and where the differences actually lie. They cannot simply talk about differences in terms of dress, culture or behavior; these are merely the symptoms of difference, but they do not constitute the actual epistemological difference itself. Modern Muslim intellectuals are, in a sense, a hybrid species. They emerged in the limited space between modern ideas and traditionalist thought. We have seen the emergence of such figures in many Muslim countries that have experienced the effects of colonization and the introduction of a plural economic and educational system. They have their feet planted in their local traditions as well as the broader world of the modern age. As such, they are comfortable in both, handicapped by neither;"

It is a natural outcome of political, economic and social processes that there emerged a group of intellectuals influenced by the development in other cultures and societies. Be it liberal democrats, Fabian reformists or revolutionary socialist or communist kind among Muslims. Their ideological affinities provided them with different interpretations of what Islam meant. Ironically due to lack of enlightened guidance and unnecessary confrontation by those in charge of political and social institutions many of these intellectuals were lost to Islam. The real problem is the limitation imposed by the people, this would include all sections and all levels of society, with their inherent inadequate knowledge and gap in their understanding and practice of Islam. It was falsely deduced that lack of progress in Islamic societies was due to Islam and that progress in non-Islamic societies was due to their secular approach or modernism. The political dimension and the economic undercurrents need to be critically studied to identify the role of colonialism and neo-colonialism and now globalization and post-globalization in scientific and technological revolution. The role of individual scientists and scholars need to be emphasized too. They pursued the path of inquiry and research, in the process discovered laws of nature and invented new processes based on the fundamental laws, all this is not negation of Islam, for this is understood as simply as latest gift of God to humankind
Or as latest understanding, or borrowings, of laws of nature from the unlimited resource of God's knowledge. Science and technology is an integral part of Islamic understanding. Such an understanding leads to humility and avoids arrogance that led to catastrophe such as Holocaust or the tragedy of Palestine or more recently that of Iraq. It is important to understand what is right and wrong and what is permitted and what is not permitted. More so when one commands awesome power to create and destroy. Islam stands for peace and harmony among all peoples and forbids killing of the innocent.

"The modern Muslim intellectual is one who is not daunted by the task of delving into his or her religious knowledge for critical answers and solutions to the present. Such intellectuals are better able to do so because they are not the product of a traditional educational system, which is narrow and rigid. They are not bound by traditional norms and rules of religious discursive activity, because they are not really part of that particular narrow tradition. Unlike the traditional ulama, who never go beyond the texts that they read, the modern intellectual will be able to read deeper into the text in a critical, imaginative manner."

There is no doubt about the immense contribution made by education. It has a very long history. The first universities were not initiated in Europe but may be in India, China, Egypt, Mesopotamia and Persia. The enterprising Arabs with their trade links with various parts of the world through land and the seas were able to develop the educational facilities with the advent of Islam that facilitated the opening of the whole new world of knowledge. The rapid spread of Islam was a natural result of that. It was the political and military failures that restrained the further development Islamic institutions of learning. Ulamas and Mullahs have done their best to conserve the knowledge of Islam within their limited capacities, in this way they are not so different from modern teachers or intellectuals with their limited knowledge. This is not to deny the numerous cases of atrocities and exploitation committed by people in Islam and other religions due to their limited knowledge and their arrogance and failure to overcome their limitations. We all are humans and so we have limitations. We are not perfect and commit gross errors, therefore, more reasons to understand what is correct. We must note that atrocities were, and are being, committed by people who profess/ed modern ways of life in capitalist, colonialist, fascist, communist and democratic societies.

"But what I am calling for is a critical reading of the corpus of Islamic texts and doctrine so that we can begin to break free from the dogmas of the past which may have been relevant at a certain stage in Islamic history, but no longer. This is not to say that the readings and interpretations of the past were not important or relevant. They were, but that is precisely the point. Their relevance lies in the past, in the pre-modern age, but not now."

Islam can not be reduced to a dogma, it is a living universal value system. Truth can not be construed as a dogma. Having embraced truth there is no need for breaking free. It is an illusion of freedom, what it leads to is to get entangled in the chains of untruth. In fact one feels free if truth is with oneself. The concepts of truth, justice and knowledge in Islam are valid for all times to come as the constant core values. It is Islam, which gave the message of truth, reason and knowledge and freed humankind from superstitions. It opened the way for human progress and emancipation. Human beings by their nature of being are imperfect, so the imperfect understanding and implementation needs to be critically reviewed and not Islam.

"Here is where the modern Muslim intellectual has a role to play for the world community as a whole. As I said earlier, neither Islam nor modernity is monolithic, and both are open to question."

There is no doubt that intellectuals and activists have a role to play in shaping our world. Muslims have been concerned with the world-wide community Ummat, the unity of humanity in the service of the God. Questioning is a human habit and a right. But there is the issue of faith and belief. Once you have explored the universe of a value system, one has to make a critical choice. Muslims when they adopt their faith they do so after reflections and then they commit to the Islamic way of life. There is nothing to fear for Islam, it can stand the severest questioning but the problem is insecurity felt by some of those who are not so well versed in the art of answering.

"The process of questioning has already begun in the case of the latter. As we have seen in recent decades, a critical questioning and reassessment of the claims of modernity has been done in the West. Thanks to the lessons of post-modern critical theory we all know that modernity is not innocent, nor is it culture-blind and as objective as it claims to be. But at least in the West modern Western intellectuals have begun to question this and they have developed a more critical attitude towards modernity as a phenomenon."

The questioning in Islam began the day the revelations were brought before people.
And it has not stopped ever since. What we should be questioning is why we have been restricted in our development. Is it because of inherent limitations of Islam as
a universal value system or because of lack of correct understanding and implementation of its message. It is rather unequal comparison between a value system, which spans the entire course of evolution and that, which is so limited in scope and time, modernity. What we need to question is our interpretations, our understanding and our ability to communicate Islamic values in order to guide the community in the 21st century. We should do it for the sole reason of human development and service of humanity, which is dearest to the God. There is the option open to all the believers world wide to unite for peace, harmony and development irrespective of their value systems.

"The modern Muslim intellectual stands to serve the needs of other communities as well when he or she begins to question and rethink the premises of both Islamic discourse and modern discourse simultaneously. He or she can also show to the non-Muslim world how complex Islam truly is, once he or she brings to the surface the internal dynamics of Islamic discourse that have been silenced or suppressed for so long. As a result our collective understanding of Islam will be broadened and enriched."

Well, Islam has provided complete freedom to question and opt for the way one likes the way of believers or unbelievers, of the right and the wrong, the way that is straight, easy and open and the other ways. It is when one shows the richness of Islamic thought and its complexity that some of our intellectuals want to have practical and simpler understanding! Islam provides the freedom to pursue religion and way of life that one wishes to, only it tells us the consequences in advance to enable us to make a correct judgment.

"We do not have much choice at the moment. The Muslim world is caught between states and governments that are secular in orientation and ulama, who are conservative in theirs. The duty and task of reform falls on the shoulders of the modern Muslim intellectual, who needs to retain a critical distance in between."

In any situation it always appears that there are limited choices, but in reality if one explores there is a whole range of options before us. It requires probing and reflections. In each age, it has been the duty of intellectuals to steer the society towards its next phase of development. Now here I would like to state that we need to accept that Mullahs are also intellectuals. However, serious the disagreement between conservatives and progressives may be it is a fact of life. In the process they have had to face tremendous resistance and put up a great struggle to succeed. Many have fallen on the way of human development but then epic struggle has been an on-going endeavor. Yet, no intellectuals can succeed without an enlightened following of people. Creating this awareness among people is critical and should be the top priority. Collectively they have succeeded, with the blessings of Allah.

That is why we can see the light of the 21st century, the role of intellectuals in Muslim societies is very much similar to that in any other societies. For conservative and progressives can be found almost everywhere and the forces of status quo and development are engaged in a permanent struggle. Perhaps, the God has willed thus so let us do our best for human development, keeping our priorities right, for the poor and needy, less privileged and exploited. For the righteous and the believers the path is straight ahead. Yes, indeed the whole humanity should wake up, Muslims first!

With due respects to Prof. Abdolkarim Soroush and Shiraz Allibhai.

With warm regards,

-- Akhtar Chauhan, December 11, 2003

 Islam and Modernity

Akhtar, thank you for your reflection on this important topic. Again, I confess ignorance in where the main dispute lies between what Soroush has spoken and what you have written. Perhaps we both understand Soroush differently. Having said that, it is not great to be able to openly speak about the nature of Islam and Modernity without fear. I, like you, agree that, Islam should not be reduced to dogma, unfortunately, we do not live in such an enlightened world. Today, in many places, Islam is defined by Muslims as the length of ones beard or the hijab. The intellectual framework that built great civilizations has long since been silenced, while other less plural voices shout.

Recently, the Aga Khan spoke at the convocation of the Aga Khan University in Karachi. Here is what he had to say: "When people of a distinctive faith or culture feel economically powerless or inherit clear injustice from which they cannot escape, or find their traditions and values engulfed culturally, and their societies maligned as bleak and unjust ...they risk becoming the victims of those who would gain power by perverting an open, fluid, pluralistic tradition of thought and belief into something closed and insular. It would be wrong to see this as the future of the Ummah."

"There are those," said the Aga Khan, "who know their history and deeply value their heritage, but who also...realize how erroneous and unreasonable it is to believe that there is an unbridgeable divide between their heritage and the modern world." The Aga Khan felt that those with an educated and enlightened approach are "of the firm and sincere conviction that their societies can benefit from modernity while remaining true to tradition." "They," said the Aga Khan, "will be the bridge which can eliminate forever today's dangerous 'clash of ignorance'... where peoples of different faiths or cultural traditions are so ignorant of each other that they are unable to find a common language with which to communicate."

Muslim universities," said the Aga Khan, "have a unique responsibility: to engender in their societies a new confidence ... based on intellectual excellence, but also on a refreshed and enlightened appreciation of the scientific, linguistic, artistic and religious traditions that underpin and give such global value to our own Muslim civilizations - even though it may be ignored or not understood by parts of the Ummah itself." He recalled that even as heir to one of the greatest civilizations the world has known, the Muslim world "has inherited from history not of its own making, some of the worst and longest conflicts of the last hundred years..."

The Aga Khan warned of the consequences of the fact that "there is too little public sustenance for and debate about contemporary Muslim architecture and literature - and relatively little of the cinematic and musical talent from Turkey, Egypt and Iran that is now beginning to be recognized. These would mean "a younger successor generation that is intellectually unchallenged and culturally undernourished." Beyond that, he said there was "a one-way flow of scholarship and popular culture from the West, which in turn, receives all too little that is creative and interpretative, scholarly and artistic, from the Muslim world."

The words of the Aga Khan are not so different from yours or for that matter Soroush's. What we are all speaking about is an understanding Islam where the gift of reason and intellect can uplift humanity. The quest of knowledge and how best to use that knowledge to understand God's creation and mankind's role in sustaining, maintaining, and co-existing within that creation, is of utmost importance to Muslim societies today.

-- Shiraz Allibhai, December 12, 2003

 Islam and Modernity

Dear Shiraz,

How I wish you had told this to me earlier

"Today, in many places, Islam is defined by Muslims as the length of ones beard or the hijab."

I was sporting quite a long beard, and I just trimmed this evening. Wish I had known this to qualify..!

"The intellectual framework that built great civilizations has long since been silenced, while other less plural voices shout."

Islam provides a framework which can not be just destroyed by the human beings. The eternal light of Islam provides us the an environment of enlightenment, and it is blossoming all around.

Only we are not fully aware of its over all development and evolution over different historical phases, therefore, we think that there is inadequate progress.

Plurality also manifests as diversity in unity. Islam provides a framework where plurality adds up as a unity with God.

Thanks for posting thoughts of His Highness the Aga Khan, as always he reflects an enlightened Islamic view point on the critical issues.

with warm regards,

-- Akhtar Chauhan, December 12, 2003

Islam and Modernity

Dear Professor Akhtar,
You have summed up some of the points very aptly and I agree with them. Let me briefly air my views on some of them. I have put your quotes in red to differentiate them from my replies (in blue).

Since Islam becomes such a difficult context to understand for our friends..

I maintain that Islam is not difficult to understand at all as its meant for all people and its message and concepts are very straight-forward and easy to understand and practice. As I wrote earlier, its a logical, rational and practical religion which appeals to common sense of any person who tries to understand the essence of it.

I only find that in no way Islam ...(is) any constraint to development. Yes, there are misinterpretations, but then misinterpretation is not restricted to Islam!

I agree with you here 100 %. Islam is not against development, rather, it is a progressive religion whose message is for all times to come IF the message is interpreted correctly. I reject the notion that its message was only for that era of time.

Islam does not restrict the progress or development, it only guides us to make correct choices and steers us through a straight path in a seemingly chaotic and confused world and encourages us to be righteous. What needs to be understood is the modern concepts in the light of Islam. In order to do that one has to understand Islam first!

Again I agree with your statement! I would like to add to your statement that Islam needs to be understood correctly and not as what the mullahs understand of it. We must not forget that the Taliban were also Muslims, but their interpretation of Islam was way off from what Islam as a religion actually stands preaches and stands for.

This is not to deny the numerous cases of atrocities and exploitation committed by people in Islam and other religions due to their limited knowledge ... and failure to overcome their limitations. We are not perfect and commit gross errors, therefore, more reasons to understand what is correct.

This situation enforces the need for correct interpretation and need for people who are knowledgeable and
capable of interpreting Islam's message.

Islam can not be reduced to a dogma, it is a living universal value system. Truth can not be construed as a dogma. Having embraced truth there is no need for breaking free

Agreed that Islam cannot be reduced to a dogma (actually Prof Soroush didn't say anything contrary to that. This is what he meant). However, embracing the truth doesn't necessarily mean that there is no need for breaking free. The Taliban, as INDIVIDUALS probably practiced the basic tenets of the religion much the same way as most Muslims do (Believing, Praying, fasting etc), however they seriously got it all wrong when it came to preaching or understanding the social aspects of Islam in terms of the role of a Muslim in a society. So though they were Muslims, they needed to 'break free' from their version of Islam, which was clearly wrong - and gave Islam a bad name.

The concepts of truth, justice and knowledge in Islam are valid for all times to come as the constant core values. It is Islam, which gave the message of truth, reason and knowledge and freed humankind from superstitions. It opened the way for human progress and emancipation.

Absolutely, no doubt about this.

What we should be questioning is why we have been restricted in our development. Is it because of inherent
limitations of Islam as a universal value system or because of lack of correct understanding and implementation of its message.

I would definitely say that the latter is the reason, without doubt: the lack of correct interpretation and implementation.

That is why we can see the light of the 21st century, the role of intellectuals in Muslim societies is very much similar to that in any other societies

Again. I agree fully.

Best regards,

-- Hammad Husain, December 12, 2003

Islam and Modernity

Akhtar, finally a place where I can in fact disagree with you. All this agreement was making me miss the old days when I was attacked in a few forums for being autocratic.

Here is where I disagree, you state that "Islam provides a framework which can not be just destroyed by human beings." While I agree the message cannot be destroyed, however, the framework and methodology for interpreting and understanding that message can be corrupted, misused, or even shutdown. What we, as Muslims, require is the "Space for Freedom" that Arkoun speaks about, to freely debate and discuss the issues which effect all of us. I would rather talk about modernity, pluralism, and jurisprudence rather than if music is haram or the correct length of my shirt sleeve. Perhaps, here is our disagreement, you speak of Islam and I speak of Muslims.

Hammad, I hope you don't mind that I added some color to your post as it makes it easier to read. Also, I can find no argument with your points. Well spoken.

Regards,

-- Shiraz Allibhai, December 12, 2003

Islam and Modernity

Shiraz,

Thanks for posting Prince Aga Khan's speech. It is very apt and to-the-point, and makes a lot of sense.

In the following statement, you have perfectly summed up the level of present-day Muslim majority's understanding of Islam and what we have reduced Islam's message to..

"Today, in many places, Islam is defined by Muslims as the length of ones beard or the hijab. The intellectual framework that built great civilizations has long since been silenced, while other less plural voices shout"

Unfortunately, this is bitter reality and we have to accept it as it is. We cannot act like an ostrich - burying our head in the sand wont change the reality. On the contrary, we have to take it up from here; we have to assess what went wrong over the centuries. What happened after Ghazali? Weren't the Muslims advanced and progressive enough for centuries in Spain (712 - 1492 AD), and for over 600 years (1290 - 1922) in the Ottoman Empire?

Weren't the ideas and thoughts of intellectuals like Ibn Sina, Farabi, Ibn Rushd, Al-Kindi unmatched anywhere in the world in their respective times?

Weren't the inventors of algebra, logarithm and the number ZERO Muslims?

Weren't Muslims responsible for early major leaps in the fields of chemistry, mathematics, biology and astronomy, which laid the foundation for later European scientists?

Wasn't Salah-ud-Din Ayubi, the triumphant commander of Muslims in the 3rd Crusade (1189) highly respected and revered by his opponents, the European monarchs of the time, including King Richard-I of England?

Something has definitely gone wrong since then! Who is today's Salah-ud-din Ayubi? Saddam Hussein??? or Mullah Omar of Taliban?? Whereas Salah-ud-din Ayubi defeated his opponents and yet gained their respect, the Muslim rulers of the present day are not only defeated, but are looked down upon and ridiculed.

Who is today's Ibn-e-Sina?? Is there any Muslim intellectual who has created waves in the world in the last few centuries?

These questions are very important to understand where Islam was back then, and where it has reached now. If we draw a graph, it's likely to be a consistent downhill line from the 6th century till today.

Under this backdrop and confronted with this reality, it is imperative for us to have a rational understanding of the TRUE message of Islam, and Muslim intellectuals can play a very important role in this.

What Professor Soroush has criticized and advocated is very logical and rational and his definition of a 'Muslim Intellectual' is what I think we need.

Correct diagnosis is the first step towards heading for a cure.

Best Regards,

-- Hammad Husain, December 12, 2003

Islam and Modernity

Shiraz, thanks for making my post easy to read, and no of course I don't mind, it looks nice!! Japanese believe that packaging is as important as content!! ;-))

-- Hammad Husain, December 12, 2003

Islam and Modernity

I think this is the one of the most enlightening discussions, as it should. the subject is crucial to all of us.

I would just want to humbly point out that Islam (Quran and Sunna), is not just a religion it is an attitude, philosophy, enlightment, etc. We can spend all of our life scratching its surface as we peel away layer after layer of comprehension. The more you try to understand it the more Islam will reveal itself to you.

I think it is safe to assume we can all agree on this. Putting this into consideration we can see that time and relentless search is the main factor in a better comprehension of Islam. They will always be crucial factors in the evolution of the Islamic society. However Modernity is NOW and Now is always changing. These changes are also factors of evolution with a direct impact on the environment and the society.

I know I was stating the obvious. I wanted all of you to understand my line of thought when I say that it is inevitable that we Muslims should embrace Modernity. It is our role as Muslims to be a catalyst in this chain reaction leading to a better comprehension of Islam and a higher evolution of the Islamic society.

-- Ahmed Sabry, December 12, 2003

Islam and Modernity

Prof Akhtar,

I have some reservations about your statement:

"The eternal light of Islam provides us the an environment of enlightenment, and it is blossoming all around. Only we are not fully aware of its over all development and evolution over different historical phases, therefore, we think that there is inadequate progress".

I tend to disagree with your notion of Islam blossoming whereas the Muslim world has constantly slipped downwards from the heights it had reached intellectually (12th century) and in territorial, global influence and military terms (16th century). At the start of the 21st century, the Muslims, as a collective people, are in a deep abyss.

Here I would like to ask: What is Islam? It's not an entity or something detached from those who practice it. MUSLIMS ARE ISLAM. Islam is a message and a way of life - a guideline, a direction, a path. For who? For Muslims and essentially for all humankind. So how can it be that the Muslims have become what they have become now, whereas Islam continues to flourish and blossom????

We need to separate God's creations (all Universe) from His message as being distinctly different. His creations are tangible, but His message is not. Whereas His creations will remain as they were created and humans have no control of them, His message is up to the humans to understand and to follow (or to not). And we can see clearly whether it is being followed now or not as it was being followed a thousand years ago. So present-day Islam is what the Muslims have made out of it.

The Muslim world at the start of the 21st century is extremely disunited (look at OIC - the Organization of Islamic Conference, and the Arab League), corrupt and degenerate (the various Kingdoms and Sheikhdoms), and lagging way behind in education, technology and human development. To top it all, the religion of peace and harmony is perceived by the whole world as a religion of terrorists and murderers.

We do need some soul-searching! We cannot sit back and wait for a messiah. Its the responsibility of ALL OF US to first accept this reality, and then take constructive steps to do something about it. The intellectuals and scholars amongst us have a bigger responsibility. We cannot bask in our past glory and think we are God's gift to this earth and heaven is ours no matter what we do.

In short, to understand the state of Islam in the present day, we simply need to see the state of the Muslim World. (Again, please do not confuse it with the message or the essence of Islam, which is eternal, whether we follow it or not) Here, by Islam, I mean the Muslim World. And this is what The Aga Khan is referring to in the speech Shiraz posted.

Regards,

-- Hammad Husain, December 12, 2003

Islam and Modernity

Ahmed,

I agree with what you have said overall, but in the following statement, you have hit the jackpot and I congratulate for you hitting the nail right on its head:

"However Modernity is NOW and Now is always changing. These changes are also factors of evolution with a direct impact on the environment and the society.

... it is inevitable that we all Muslims embrace the modernity. It is our role as Muslims to be a catalyst in a better comprehension of Islam and a higher evolution of the Islamic society."

The interpretation of Islam's message has to evolve with time, as time demands. This is what makes Islam a religion for ALL times, and not static. This is precisely what makes it a complete reference for humankind's way of life for all times, till eternity, as the message is relevant in any given time in any given space, PROVIDED, we let it evolve and interpret it correctly. If we do not keep up with the changing times, we end up with Taliban's interpretation, which in my opinion, apart from being utterly wrong, was out of step with the modern times.

In other words, the interpretation for the same message in the days of Ghazali would be different from the interpretation now. This is the dynamism of the message of Islam which makes it eternal.

-- Hammad Husain, December 12, 2003

Islam and Modernity

Dear Hammad,

This is regarding your reservations about my statement:

"The eternal light of Islam provides us the an environment of enlightenment, and it is blossoming all around. Only we are not fully aware of its over all development and evolution over different historical phases, therefore, we think that there is inadequate progress".

"I tend to disagree with your notion of Islam blossoming whereas the Muslim world has constantly slipped downwards from the heights it had reached intellectually (12th century) and in territorial, global influence and military terms (16th century)."

"At the start of the 21st century, the Muslims, as a collective people, are in a deep abyss."

Here I would urge that we separate Islam's blossoming from the fate of political structures and figures. We should not make the mistake of identifying the evolution of Islam with breaking up of feudal political structures and modern dictatorial regimes and groups, supported by modern and advanced nations not so long ago.

If one probes deeper, then one would find that there are more learned and enlightened Muslims in the world than ever before. The spread of Islam is not halted by the defeat of some regimes or empires. There are more institutions of learning in Islamic world, countries, communities and neighborhoods. More people who are following the Islamic way, there are more Mosques and Madarasas. There are more books, dialogues and discourses on Islam and Islamic way. More people are embracing Islam even in the western societies. Youth is inspired by Islamic way of life and are adopting in large numbers. Muslims have made tremendous advances in science and technology, arts and culture, architecture and engineering, in fact in all aspects of human endeavor. Their quest is on going.

Yes, we need to question if all of them are following the correct path of enlightenment which Islam truly provides. It is our responsibility to guide them to a correct understanding and practice of Islam.

Also we should not accept the stereotype
of Muslims presented in large sections of the western media, as the Muslim icon of our time. In fact, we need to oppose such a distortion and insist on its correction. Unfortunately, we do not have equality of control over communication and political systems. Therefore, we seem to be in a state of severe crisis, which we are not. We are a peace loving community engaged in creative, constructive and meaningful activities of human development and spiritual upliftment. In spite of all the chaos of the contemporary world, Islam is blossoming! Let us open our Minds' eyes and see it in all its splendor.

This is not the forum to discuss the international and national politics, since you have mentioned some cases it would be interesting to find out who used and supported whom and when. How come the friends of yesteryears have become enemies of today? Perhaps, it is all politics and economics devoid of any spirituality on both the sides, the current victors and the vanquished.
I would not like to elaborate further on political situation on this forum.
But I can safely say that Islam shows us the way through this situation and we need to encourage Muslims and non-Muslims to follow the path of peace, harmony and enlightenment. God is just and merciful. May He guide us along this path shown by Islam and bless us with peace and happiness. Amen.

with warm regards,

-- Akhtar Chauhan, December 12, 2003

Islam and Modernity

Dear Ahmed,

Thanks for highlighting the key issues.
Islam and Modernity
"I think this is the one of the most enlightening discussions, as it should (be). the subject is crucial to all of us."

"I would just want to humbly point out that Islam (Quran and Sunna), is not just a religion it is an attitude, philosophy, enlightment, etc. We can spend all of our life scratching its surface as we peel away layer after layer of comprehension. The more you try to understand it the more Islam will reveal itself to you."

Yes, this is precisely the mission before us. To understand Islam deeply and fulfill its mission in the service of humanity's emancipation toward enlightenment and unity with God.

"I think it is safe to assume we can all agree on this. Putting this into consideration we can see that time and relentless search is the main factor in a better comprehension of Islam. They will always be crucial factors in the evolution of the Islamic society."

I find there is a great consensus among us on the issues involved in this discussion. That is heart warming and full of hope and encouragement.

" However Modernity is NOW and Now is always changing. These changes are also factors of evolution with a direct impact on the environment and the society."

It is here that I have posed certain questions that relate to our usage of language, structures and methods and the kind of problems and issues it leads to become impediment in further development of Islamic understanding and progress in Muslim world and among Muslims through out the world.

e.g. Let me cite these examples since some of them have been referred to.

In Afghanistan, there was an attempt by progressives influenced by the communists and socialists to steer their country to the path of "progress" which was defeated by the combined forces of the Americans and groups that later on constituted Taliban. Were the Afghan shortlived regimes not "progressive" or "modern"? Can one say that socialism and communism are not part of "modernism"?

In Iran, the Shah of Iran unleashed powerful waves of "modernism" and "westernization", yet the people were against this because of elitism, opulence and inequality and so many other related issues. But fundamentally the people found that the so called "modernism" was not Islamic in character. The Muslim Intellectuals failed to gather the discontent and develop that into a viable movement for social development. The opportunity was seized by the religious leadership and they successfully led the revolution.
Now what they have been practicing is "Islamic" but not "modernism", or as some critic may suggest that what they practice is not Islam but a lesser dogma in the name of Islam. That is where the problem lies, to understand Islam as ever evolving universal value system.

The political stability that is essential for any social development is generally denied by the vested interests in the world politics.

A 8 year long war was inflicted upon the nations, and millions of Muslims in Iraq and Iran suffered as a result. This was between two "modern" nations who were part of one Muslim world. The war took place because of the failure of the "modern political dictatorship and leadership" to understand the Islamic value of one Ummah and the need for resolving issues peacefully.

In a similar way invasion of Kuwait could have been avoided if the "modern" political leadership had focused more on Islamic unity, world peace and harmony rather than "modern nationalistic aspirations", rather than using "modern weapon systems" Islamic wisdom could have provided the light to guide correct action.

This is not peculiar to Muslim world. Among Christians too this has happened before. Adolph Hitler was a Christian believer and yet he unleashed wars on countries of Europe. Germany was spearheading the development of "modern science and technology" and yet failed in the mission of peace and harmony.

In post world war II, the Americans and NATO and the Soviets and Warsaw pact countries followed the path of "modernism" in their science and technology. They achieved great successes in various branches of human endeavor but continued their "modern" politics in other countries during the cold war. Resulting in huge causalities in the Third World, in fact, it is said more people have died in this cold war than in the World War II. Hiroshima and Nagasaki are worst examples of "modernist" project gone wrong.

Let us look at "modernism" in economics. Now if we are thirsty we have freedom to choose between Pepsi and Coco-cola! Or in architectural terms between rcc frame and steel frame and glass cladding or aluminum cladding!

How since the advent of "modern" economics the countries of the Third World have lost out to the advanced countries in terms of capital flows?
Why in the name of globalization the gap between the haves and have nots is widening world wide? Any country or company who does not tow the "modern" or is it "post-modern", line of MNCs will have to pay the cost dearly.

Even in professions, if one does not use the acceptable "modern / post-modern" language one would be immediately singled out! So we need to be critical about the usage of language an concepts. Prof. Soroush has also pointed this out in his interview very rightly when he suggest that Muslim intellectuals should be critical.

"I know I was stating the obvious. I wanted all of you to understand my line of thought when I say that it is inevitable that we Muslims should embrace Modernity. It is our role as Muslims to be a catalyst in this chain reaction leading to a better comprehension of Islam and a higher evolution of the Islamic society."

I would suggest that instead of embracing "modernism" we need to understand the critical processes in the "contemporary" times and make intelligent and enlightened choices. Islam can provide us the insight, wisdom and knowledge to make this choices.

Therefore, I am advocating that we use our own way of life, our own culture and language, our own understanding of eternal issues of peace / conflict, harmony / turmoil, development / decadence and make the right choices.

Islam should be in the forefront of world wide movement for peace, harmony,
sustainable development, appropriate science and technology, innovation and evolution of a more equitable, less exploitative and just society and quest for enlightenment. In this we share our concerns with all the people belonging to different faiths, ideologies, philosophies, political systems, economic systems, social systems. Here also I am sure we all are in agreement.

I find "modernism" and "post-modernism" grossly inadequate to contain all these processes. Because these processes were unleashed much before so called
"modernism" or "contemporary" period began.

The problem is really evolution of indigenous knowledge, development of different subjects and disciplines and a system of accounting of ideas and interacting with each other internationally or globally through shared languages and frameworks.

Let me illustrate this with example of Islam and the prophet Mohammed. If the message of the Holy Quran was not revealed independently, instead, it could have been proposed as a lesser reform within the prevailing faith system, Prophet would have had to face less problems but the humanity would have lost the opportunity of making rapid strides. So the message and spirit of Islam was most crucial and critical for development of humankind.

There are critics of Islam and Prophet Mohammed since the advent of Islam, who are trying their best to subvert the progress of Islam in so many ways. One of the easiest way they have adopted is to treat is as a tradition that is outdated or as a way of life that has outlived its utility.

I am not suggesting that Prof. Soroush any one else on ArchNet is suggesting this. But there is a great danger that Prof. Soroush may be misunderstood when the western concepts are freely used in the discourse, as is apparent in the interview. This may result in unnecessary impediments in the process of development of Islamic societies and may result into backlash that takes these societies backwards rather than forward.

So all that I am suggesting is to be very critical ( that Prof. Soroush is also suggesting), intelligent and careful in using the concepts, terminology and methodology ( here I think I may differ from Prof. Soroush, but I am not so sure because I would not like to jump to conclusion because of one interview.)

In short I would insist that we rely on our intellectual resources for developing our way of life, our understanding, education, research, sciences and technologies, arts and culture, philosophies and theories, policies, plans and programs. I can cite the examples of Mahatma Gandhi and Maulana Abdul Kalam Azad of India or Nelson Mandela in South Africa in this regard or more recently Dr.Abdul Kalam, the President of India in the fields of science and technology and Laurie Baker in the field of architecture. I am sure there are several heroes in Islamic societies and the Third World who have contributed tremendously in advancement of humanity using indigenous resources such as Hasan Fathy and Wissa Wasef in Egypt.

Simultaneously, I also find that a world wide community, cutting across faiths and countries, is emerging which longs for peace, harmony and enlightenment. In fact this is more crucial, the choice between livingry and weaponry to use Buckminster Fuller's terminology.

So I would urge that we need to shift to a higher level of discourse rather than discussing Islam and modernity per se, I would suggest that we identify the critical issues such as world peace, harmony, education, economic and social development, refinement of arts and culture, conservation and enrichment of cultural heritage and environment, architecture and engineering, understanding and respecting nature, sustainable and appropriate development, innovation and evolution, inculcating and development of spiritual understanding and enlightenment.

Islam provides a simple but eternal framework to undertake this. While me may be required to use the term other than "modern" to denote this phase, may be "post-modern" or more neutral term such as "contemporary" times.

We need to be part of this movement and we should struggle jointly, but as equals, to achieve these goals and objectives in creating a more humane and just world order. Here we shall need shared languages and concepts, that need to be evolved and accepted.

But since we would be more independent and less dependent, we will be respected more in international arena and this recognition shall be respected all around for all time to come. That is why I am suggesting that we follow the advise, as revealed in the Holy Quran, of opening our Mind's eye and see the world more critically and make more correct choices. Thanks, Ahmed for stimulating the discussion further.

with warm regards,

-- Akhtar Chauhan, December 13, 2003

Islam and Modernity

Professor Chauhan,

On a lighter note, what is a mind's eye?? you refer to mind's eye quite often. Isn't the mind supposed to analyze and understand only and uses our regular two eyes to see..?

Just joking!!

But still curious!! :-))

Regards,

-- Hammad Husain, December 13, 2003

Islam and Modernity

Dear Hammad,

Mind's eye is a spiritual gift by the God, which enables a human being to find a straight path in the chaos and confusion of the worldly affairs.

Mind's eye is the most powerful resource that human being has when combined with the faith, it shows the path of enlightenment through the darkness of ignorance or the fire of arrogance.

Mind's eye is the most creative resource that human being has when combined with the love and care it enables a human being to read the other person.

Mind's eye is the most critical resource when combined with brain it provides human being with insight to chart its path of development.

Mind's eye is the most constructive resource when combined with will enables ideas to find its form and structure.

Mind's eye is the most sublime resource when combined with the warmth of the heart enables human being to find love.

Mind's eye is the most energetic resource that illuminates the path for navigation in imagination.

Mind's eye is the most accurate resource that enables human beings to measure the distances that one has to travel to achieve higher goals.

Mind's eye is the most wonderful resource that enables human being to transform concepts into architecture.

Mind's eye is the most sensitive resource that enables
humankind to find its mission in life.

.. I think by now your mind
must have been ignited..
and mind's eye opened
to take you on this wonderful journey
.. through space and time,
with the blessings of Allah!
..

In Islamic cricket, it enables
a batsman to duck the odd bouncer
or hit it for a six over the long leg!

with lots of love,

-- Akhtar Chauhan, December 13, 2003

Islam and Modernity

Dear friends,

Here is a reference to the discussion on modernism among Catholic Christians in Europe. It provides an insight into the complex process of social change. Perhaps, we can learn some critical lessons to avoid repetition of history.

MODERNISM

"Etymologically, modernism means an exaggerated love of what is modern, an infatuation for modern ideas, "the abuse of what is modern", as the Abbé Gaudaud explains (La Foi catholique, I, 1908, p. 248). The modern ideas of which we speak are not as old as the period called "modern times".

"In general we may say that modernism aims at that radical transformation of human thought in relation to God, man, the world, and life, here and hereafter, which was prepared by Humanism and eighteenth-century philosophy, and solemnly promulgated at the French Revolution. J.J. Rousseau, who treated an atheistically philosopher of his time as a modernist, seems to have been the first to use the word in this sense."

"Litter (Dictionaries), who cites the passage; explains: "Modernist, one who esteems modern times above antiquity". After that, the word seems to have been forgotten, till the time of the Catholic publicist Périn (1815-1905), professor at the University of Louvain, 1844-1889. This writer, while apologizing for the coinage, describes "the humanitarian tendencies of contemporary society" as modernism. The term itself he defines as "the ambition to eliminate God from all social life". With this absolute modernism he associates a more temperate form, which he declares to be nothing less than "liberalism of every degree and shade" ("Le Modernisme dans l'Eglise d'après les lettres inédites de Lamennais", Paris, 1881)"

"During the early years of the present century, especially about 1905 and 1906, the tendency to innovation which troubled the Italian dioceses, and especially the ranks of the young clergy, was taxed with modernism. Thus at Christmas, 1905, the bishops of the ecclesiastical provinces of Turin and Vercelli, in a circular letter of that date, uttered grave warnings against what they called "Modernismo nel clero" (Modernism among the clergy."

"The name "modernism" was not to the liking of the reformers. The propriety of the new term was discussed even amongst good Catholics. When the Decree "Lamentabili" appeared, Mgr Baudrillart expressed his pleasure at not finding the word "modernism" mentioned in it (Revue pratique d'apologetique, IV, p. 578). He considered the term "too vague". Besides it seemed to insinuate "that the Church condemns everything modern". The Encyclical "Pascendi" (8 Sept., 1907) put an end to the discussion. It bore the official title, "De Modernistarum doctrinis". The introduction declared that the name commonly given to the upholders of the new errors was not inapt."

"The Encyclical "Pascendi" (8 Sept., 1907) put an end to the discussion. It bore the official title, "De Modernistarum doctrines". The introduction declared that the name commonly given to the upholders of the new errors was not inapt. Since then the modernists themselves have acquiesced in the use of the name, though they have not admitted its propriety (Loisy, "Simples réflexions sur le decret 'Lamentabili' et sur l'encyclique 'Pascendi' du 8 Sept., 1907", p. 14; "Il programma dei modernisti": note at the beginning)."


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We need to evolve our concepts of further evolution of Islamic understanding based on our ideas related to the contemporary issues, problems and processes. We should be open to learn from others, for Islam does not restrict our thoughts and actions to Muslim world alone. In fact Islam believes in evolving a world community, developing economic and trade relationships with communities around the world and the tradition of Hadith refers to Prophet Mohammed's direction that one may even go to China to learn. We should be able to assimilate the relevant lessons in our understanding. Since all human knowledge is derived from God, there is no problem in learning and enriching Islamic understanding from relevant sources and improving the quality of life in Muslim world but guided by Islam.

with warm regards,

-- Akhtar Chauhan, December 13, 2003

Islam and Modernity

Dear all,

Your responses for what I said was heart warming. And believe me that it gave me a new light for what I was saying.

Dear Akhtar,

I totally agree with what you said. We are not a hive just living and surviving. Islamic intellectuals are forests, great forests where a lot of people used its wood (Muslim and non Muslim). Muslims and non Muslims does not comprehend the kind of void that the lack of this forests may constitute Either yesterday, today or tomorrow.

I am sure that am not overstating the role of Muslims. I just hope that more people may understand that.

-- Ahmed Sabry, December 14, 2003

Islam and Modernity

Dear Ahmed,

Thanks for your words of appreciation and encouragement. I am sure that all of are enlightened by this discussion that Shiraz Allibhai initiated. Thanks Shiraz for your all round efforts.

As we all know, the modern universities claim their roots in medieval European. However, we are also aware that these European Universities were not the first ones. There were great Universities in the Islamic societies. The great university of Al-Azhar was founded 970 A.D. But then there were other great centers of learning in the Islamic world. Now, that is not what I want to stress. I would like to know about the usage of our languages. How many of Islamic Universities use the Arabic title / Persian title / Turkish Title and use their own languages for higher studies and research?

Like in India we have a term Vishwa Vidyapeeth for Universities but generally we have become used to the English title. Universities and the language of instruction is English. On one side it has given us a great advantage in world affairs, economics and different fields internationally, but it has also led to a situation that more than half of our population feels that they are second grade citizens because they don't speak English! Even in college of architecture, the students who come from the vernacular medium schools feel that they are not up to it in comparison with students with English medium background. As a result, there are very few books in our national languages for architecture. This retards the development of knowledge and research. In comparison one can see the growth of German, French, Russian, Italian, Greek, Spanish etc since they have been able to develop their educational systems using their own national languages.

So if we evolve our own languages, and express our achievements in sciences and technologies, arts and cultures and philosophies then the world will have greater respects for us. It is only then that we may be able to add to the names of great leaders, teachers, scientists, technologists,
mathematicians, philosophers, artists and architects of Islamic societies, in addition to what our scholars have been able to achieve in the English and other foreign languages that we inherited from our colonial past and get involved with in neo-colonial present. So how does one break free from such shackles too.. and explore the wonderful world opened to us by Islam?

with warm regards,

-- Akhtar Chauhan, December 14, 2003

Islam and Modernity

Dear Akhtar,

Well said am sure you speak for all of us. However the problem is different here in Egypt the main language is Arabic. I did my master degree in the American university of Cairo. That is why I know you can never share an article or a thesis without writing it in English. English now is the espranto of the world aren't we all here discussing the Islamic architecture and more in English what a better proof.

My sorrow is for the intellectuals who insists on only using Arabic with no translation available. They are not only shutting themselves out. They are shutting themselves in which is the Greater loss.

As you have all taught in this wonderful community learning is the most difficult but gratifying objective worthy of chasing.

-- Ahmed Sabry, December 14, 2003

Islam and Modernity

Dear Ahmed,

I agree entirely with you about the need to have mastery over at least one foreign language, such as English to be able to communicate with the world. But the fact remains that it is essential to study in one's own mother/father tongue!

While many Muslims are able to read Arabic for reciting the Holy Quran they do not know Arabic language so their understanding is restricted by the translation. This is a great loss to the Ummah.

More problematic is the many of the teachers in Madarasas and Mullahs also do not know the Arabic language and thus they are not able to teach Arabic. This restricts their ability to cultivate young minds and their use of strong hand tactics give a bad name to Islam and many a young believer is lost at such an early age without ever knowing the real mission of Islam.

There has been some improvement in the situation since establishment of new network of institutions of learning in Islamic societies. However, we need to ensure that these institutions have a more enlightened view of Islam. In this context it is very important that enlightened Muslims get involved with management and education process in such institutions. Only then Muslims will be able to achieve their full potentials in the service of humanity and God.

with warm regards,

-- Akhtar Chauhan, December 14, 2003

Islam and Modernity

I agree with having technical books in our own languages, but ALONG WITH English. English has now become too important a world language to be relegated to second-grade level - specially in countries like Pakistan and India where English is wide-spread and is the business language.

English is probably the only positive thing the colonial British left behind (apart from Cricket of course!), but now, after 56 years, I refuse to relate English language with our colonial past as its the language of the world, and not only of England or for that matter America.

Having said that, I am all for development of our national and regional languages and their literature.

What I regret is that in both Pakistan and India, like Prof Akhtar said, the intellectuals look down upon those who are either not fluent in English or who prefer national and regional languages. However, these intellectuals or elite constitute a very small percentage of the total population.

Another thing that I'm against is the mixing of English and Urdu (or Hindi). Just hear a Pakistani bureaucrat or an Indian Actress speak. One sentence will have 5 local words and 5 English words!! Its not so in the Arab world - or for most of the countries in the world. Is this so in Mumbai as well, Prof Akhtar?

I agree with Ahmed. One cannot shun a world language just because of nationalistic sentiments regarding one's own language or negative feelings about the former imperialists.

A renowned Muslim leader of the sub-continent in late 19th century, Sir Syed Ahmad Khan preached that to gain independence and to compete with the British, Muslims would have to learn their language, and not reject it out of protest.

This is even more true in this century!

-- Hammad Husain, December 14, 2003

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