{"id":152,"date":"2000-08-10T19:33:10","date_gmt":"2000-08-11T02:33:10","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/doctorsoroush.com\/english\/?p=152"},"modified":"2012-09-24T19:38:53","modified_gmt":"2012-09-25T02:38:53","slug":"islam-revelation-and-prophethood","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/drsoroush.com\/en\/islam-revelation-and-prophethood\/","title":{"rendered":"Islam, Revelation and Prophethood"},"content":{"rendered":"

An interview with Abdulkarim Soroush<\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0About the Expansion of Prophetic Experience<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n

** This interview took place on 10 August 2000 and was published in the (now-banned) journal Aftab, No. 15, April-May 2002.<\/p>\n

\u00a0In an article entitled \u2018The Expansion of Prophetic Experience\u2019, Abdulkarim Soroush suggested, among other things, that, as the Prophet\u2019s experience grew over time, he became more skilled at being a prophet and conveying his message. The following interview is about Dr. Soroush\u2019s theory of the expansion of Prophetic experience.
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Q. Regarding the idea that there is no distinction between the Prophet\u2019s words and God\u2019s words, you said that the Prophet\u2019s multifarious proximity to God [qorb-e farayezi va navafeli<\/em>] meant that God had become the Prophet\u2019s ears and eyes and the Prophet\u2019s discourse was God\u2019s discourse, and that, as Mowlana Jalal-al-Din Rumi put it: \u2018This was a lover who could do no wrong.\u2019\u00a0 In other words, since the Prophet\u2019s hands, tongue and eyes had become godly, whatever he did was effectively counselled by God. <\/strong><\/p>\n

You also said:\u00a0 Had there been no Abu-Lahab and his wife, would the Masad Sura[1] have been revealed?\u00a0 And, with this example, you underlined that this was an experience that expanded over time and that, as events occurred around the Prophet, these phenomena were set in the Koran \u2013 over time.\u00a0 It was because there was someone by the name of Abu-Lahab that he was mentioned in the Koran.\u00a0 It was because the problem of the slander against Aisha[2] actually occurred that it was reflected in the Koran.<\/strong><\/p>\n

The fact of the matter is that our society is in the process of grasping and digesting these remarks and views. Many of these ideas are unsettling and give rise to a host of questions.You say at one point: \u2018It was revelation that complied with the Prophet, not the Prophet who complied with revelation.\u2019 <\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0There are verses in the Koran that present Gabriel as a very powerful teacher and in a much more immense light than this.\u00a0 He\u2019s portrayed as having enormous stature: \u2018This is naught but a revelation revealed, taught him by one terrible in power, very strong.\u2019[3]<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0Or, elsewhere: \u2018Truly this is the word of a noble Messenger having power, with the Lord of the Throne secure, obeyed, moreover trusty.\u2019[4]<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0These verses really grant Gabriel an immense stature and position and convey a sense of teaching.\u00a0 In particular, they convey the notion of trustiness in revelation.\u00a0 How can these verses be consistent with Gabriel complying with the Prophet?\u00a0 Do your suggestions not lower Gabriel\u2019s stature to less than it ought to be?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0Elsewhere in the Koran, we have: \u2018Move not thy tongue with it to hasten it; Ours it is to gather it and to recite it.\u2019[5] According to this verse, during revelation, the Prophet would try to recite the verses quicker than they arrived.\u00a0 Malik-Bin-Nabi has been cited as saying that the Prophet, peace be upon him, used to repeat the verses so that they would be stored in his memory.\u00a0 The Prophet is explicitly advised here that \u2018there is no need to repeat the verses\u2019. Hence, the Prophet was barred from the mechanism of repetition, which occurs in ordinary human beings.\u00a0 It is exactly as if a vessel has been placed in trust inside the Prophet and he\u2019s even been barred from guarding the vessel. Hence, the idea that \u2018revelation used to emanate from the Prophet\u2019 is not in keeping with the above verses. Instead, these verses convey a sense that something untouched and whole has been conveyed to the Prophet as a trust and that he then recounted this divine bequest to others.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Also, based on your model and your exposition of the process of revelation, what happens to all the instances in the Koran where the Prophet himself is being spoken to and cautioned?\u00a0 \u2018He frowned and turned away,\u2019[6] or \u2018and had We not confirmed thee, surely thou wert near to inclining unto them a very little,\u2019[7] or \u2018perchance thou art leaving part of what is revealed to thee\u2019[8].\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

All these verses are addressed to the Prophet.\u00a0 In fact, they are all evidence indicating that the Prophet was conveying to others exactly what he was receiving, like a trust.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

The question that arises is: How do these points tally with the theory of \u2018The Expansion of Prophetic Experience\u2019?<\/strong><\/p>\n

A. I first raised the basic idea of the expansion of Prophetic experience, in a brief and condensed form, a few year ago when I was speaking to some Iranian students in Britain. When I returned to Iran, I expanded it and, ultimately, presented the relevant article, along with a number of other articles, in the form of a book. As I wrote in the introduction to the book, The Expansion of Prophetic Experience <\/em>can be viewed as Volume 2 of The Contraction and Expansion of Religious Knowledge<\/em>.<\/p>\n

In The Contraction and Expansion of Religious Knowledge<\/em>, I\u2019d mainly discussed the interpretation and annotation of the text, and in The Expansion of Prophetic Experience<\/em>, I analysed the actual process of revelation and the way in which the text, which we endeavour to interpret, emerged and materialized, because the way in which a text comes into being affects the meanings that we obtain from it. For, just as I said in The Contraction and Expansion of Religious Knowledge<\/em> too, in order to understand a text, we unavoidably rely on our presuppositions.\u00a0 These presuppositions are very varied, ranging from our theories about human beings to cosmology, to history and so on.\u00a0 One of the presuppositions that plays a potent role in our interpretation of a text and our discovery of its meaning is our knowledge of and theory about the genesis of the text.<\/p>\n

We can therefore say that The Expansion of Prophetic Experience <\/em>expresses one example of the presuppositions that affect our understanding of a text. I tried to explain there what the relationship is between the Prophet and the text that he produced; the text that we heard from him and now have as a keepsake.\u00a0 This has a significant impact on the meaning that we obtain from the text and this impact raises this ultimate question: \u2018What religious-devotional duty does this construal of the Koran \u2013 as a Prophet-produced text \u2013 lay before us?\u2019\u00a0 This is a totally logical question, which arises from the logic of the discussion.\u00a0 I will first refer to and offer some explanations about the initial parts of the discussion and then we\u2019ll reach the final parts.<\/p>\n

I don\u2019t know how many of you have read The Islamic Perspective <\/em>which we wrote years ago for the high school curriculum.\u00a0 I said there that the way that we obtain knowledge is by sketching pictures, in the sense that we always see aggregates of things and then we throw garments over them or we sketch pictures that comprise some of the evidence and data.\u00a0 For example, when you hear various remarks about one of your friends, these remarks are like data that you\u2019re provided with and, on the basis of the data, you sketch a picture and you say:\u00a0 \u2018This is a picture of my friend.\u2019\u00a0 In other words, if all the remarks are true, they all fall under this or that theory.\u00a0 The data as an aggregate shows that the person whom we\u2019d so far considered a friend turns out to have been an enemy or a spy or some such thing.\u00a0 We always proceed in this way.\u00a0 Of course, the pictures are changeable and, when we obtain new data, we may amend or complete a picture.\u00a0 Or we may reject it altogether and replace it with a completely new picture.\u00a0 These pictures play a prominent role in the way we accumulate knowledge; they raise questions for us, they take us forward step by step, they predict things and they help us discover new data.<\/p>\n

We proceed in this same way when it comes to the Prophet, peace be upon him.\u00a0 (I\u2019m speaking to you now about what goes on behind the scenes.\u00a0 What you have in The Expansion of Prophetic Experience<\/em> is effectively the results that I obtained from the picture that I sketched.)\u00a0 Don\u2019t bring your Islamic beliefs into play for the moment.\u00a0 As phenomenologists would put it, put brackets round them.\u00a0 Look at this issue in a neutral way, like you would look at Confucius or Marx, for example.\u00a0 In other words, look at the Prophet of Islam, who was someone who had a deep impact on the world, without bringing in your own emotional and mental proclivities. The Prophet of Islam made some contentions.\u00a0 We\u2019ve all heard these contentions.\u00a0 The truth of someone\u2019s contentions can never be proved on the basis of the contentions themselves.\u00a0 If they are to be affirmed or denied, it has to be on the basis of external evidence.<\/p>\n

The Prophet of Islam maintained that he was a prophet. And he was completely certain about his mission.\u00a0 And this complete certainty made him very brave in practice.\u00a0 In other words, he never desisted from his mission despite a whole range of obstacles, oppositions and enmities.\u00a0 This evidence shows that there is an inner strength and that a powerful mental conviction keeps him standing firm and doesn\u2019t allow him to retreat.\u00a0 The Prophet used to say:\u00a0 I obtain the things that I understand via a process known as \u2018revelation\u2019.\u00a0 Regarding revelation, he used to say that it came to him from an other-worldly being by the name of God and that there was a mediator by the name of Gabriel.\u00a0 This is all in the Koran.\u00a0 The verses that you recited convey these ideas.<\/p>\n

Now, let us take one step back.\u00a0 The Prophet of Islam believed and maintained \u2013 as do his followers \u2013 that God is beyond time and place and is formless, with no particular language or skin colour.\u00a0 And that He doesn\u2019t have any of the characteristics that we human beings have.\u00a0 He is completely unique.\u00a0 But when this same God spoke to the Prophet, he would, on the Prophet\u2019s own contention, speak in Arabic.\u00a0 In other words, He would leave the realm of language-lessness and use a specific language. When this same God spoke to other Prophets, He would speak to them in their language.\u00a0 In other words, when He spoke to Jesus or Moses, peace be upon them, He would speak in their language. Prophets didn\u2019t say that God contacts us in very mysterious ways and at that level language is irrelevant, but when we speak to you, we use your language.\u00a0 The Prophet of Islam certainly made no such claim.\u00a0 The Prophet\u2019s followers, too, believe that precisely these words, in Arabic and in the form of precisely these sentences which we currently have in the Koran, were recited to the Prophet and he would convey them to his people.\u00a0 We have to register this information and evidence and say that God\u2019s action was \u2018particularlized\u2019, in the sense that it took on the colour of the environment and that, when it came to the Prophet, it wasn\u2019t colourless, quality-less and formless, but was completely in the shape and size of the society in which the Prophet lived.<\/p>\n

The second piece of evidence or data that we have is that \u2013 as you said \u2013 we see events in the Koran which occurred during the time of the Prophet, such as the tale of the accusation levelled against Aisha, the Abu-Lahab affair, the wars that the Prophet experienced and many other events and minor or rare occurrences.[9] During the Prophet\u2019s lifetime, the people would ask the Prophet questions about various things and the relevant answers are in the Koran, in brief or at length.\u00a0 These questions and answers and things that occurred in the course of the Prophet\u2019s social and political life form a large portion of the verses in the Koran.<\/p>\n

Another piece of data or evidence tells us that what we see in the Prophet\u2019s revelation is very close to and interlinked with developments in the Prophet\u2019s life, whether private or public. It was not as if some things had been prepared in advance \u2013 regardless of what took place in society and regardless of the questions that people raised \u2013 and were poured, in this pre-prepared form, into the Prophet\u2019s mind, consciousness and heart for him to convey to the people.\u00a0 The teachings were very much in keeping with the events that were taking place in the Prophet\u2019s life. (I place great emphasis on the term \u2018in keeping with\u2019.)\u00a0 The construal that I used in The Expansion of Prophetic Experience<\/em> is instantiated here.\u00a0 That is to say, the Prophet\u2019s relationship with his people was one of dialogue: he would say something and then hear something; then, he would say something in keeping with what he\u2019d heard and so on.\u00a0 It was not as if the Prophet said:\u00a0 \u2018My students or my audience are neither here nor there and what they say and what goes on in their minds don\u2019t concern me.\u00a0 I will say what I have to say unilaterally.\u2019<\/p>\n

Another piece of data is a point that I made in the article \u2018Accidentals and Essentials\u2019.\u00a0 We can see many non-Arabic words in the Koran.\u00a0 There are more than 200 such words and they are exactly the words that were in use in that region and among the Arab tribes of the time.\u00a0 They are not words that have come from elsewhere with which the Arabs were unfamiliar, words that were incomprehensible to them.\u00a0 On the contrary, they were words that the Arabs used all the time.<\/p>\n

If you look at many of the rulings that have been articulated in the Koran, such as the rulings on slaves and on the hijab, and if you look at the Arab society of the time, you\u2019ll recognize that the rulings are very similar to what was then current in Arab society; there\u2019s nothing – or very little \u2013 that\u2019s new.\u00a0 The new rulings barely amount to 1 per cent; 99 per cent consist of the rulings that were then current among Arabs.\u00a0 This point has also been made by some faqihs [experts in Islamic jurisprudence].\u00a0 Some historians have also noticed it and remarked on it.\u00a0 Mr. Mohammed Arkoun has said in his writings that many of the rulings in fiqh [Islamic jurisprudence] \u2013 especially the rulings that appear in the Koran \u2013 such as multiple wives, did not originate with the Prophet of Islam.\u00a0 The basic idea that a man can take several wives was current practice in Arab society and you see this reflected in Islamic rulings.\u00a0 Many of the rulings of fiqh existed in exactly this form or in a slightly different form among the Arabs, so that, when you look at these rulings, you can see that they were not iconoclastic at all, in the sense of going far beyond anything that existed at that time in Arab society; on the contrary, they\u2019re very close to the way things were.\u00a0 Even where you do see relatively new rulings, they don\u2019t go dramatically beyond what existed at the time.\u00a0 For example, Arabs didn\u2019t apportion any inheritance to girls, but, in Islam, inheritance is apportioned to girls too \u2013 half the amount that is apportioned to boys.\u00a0 In other words, what was considered justice at the time was more or less adhered to and what was considered cruelty and injustice was shunned and castigated.<\/p>\n

Now take these pieces of data and sketch a picture around them in order to explain them and to say why they are as they are.\u00a0 As we said, our picture-based knowledge works like this.\u00a0 We put the evidence together and, on the basis of the evidence, we suggest a theory.<\/p>\n

Look at how Darwin\u2019s theory came about.\u00a0 Darwin was in the possession of some pieces of evidence about the living world: that some creatures existed in the past and had now become extinct;\u00a0 that there were some things known as fossils, which consisted of rocks on which there were images of living creatures and plants and so on; in terms of raising animals, too, he could see that by breeding animals in a deliberate way, it was possible to guide their development and to ensure that animals had preferred and desired attributes.\u00a0 If we leave animals in the wild, different results ensue, but we can produce particular breeds of sheep, horses and cows.\u00a0 A number of other pieces of data can also be added to these:\u00a0 in some far-flung island you may find an animal that you won\u2019t find anywhere else, but, in other places, where there has been traffic to and from an island, we see, for example, that the creatures that exist there can also be found elsewhere; when we go to a desert, we find plants that have needle-like leaves, whereas, in other places, we see that trees have big, broad leaves; and so on.<\/p>\n

Darwin put all this data together.\u00a0 He also made a long journey in the Beagle, the famous ship, and gathered the appropriate material.\u00a0 If we wanted to sketch a picture to encompass and explain all this information, we could sketch a picture that says that there\u2019s no single theory; that God wanted to create creatures in a particular way up to a particular century and not to create them thereafter.\u00a0 As to plants that have needle-like leaves, God wanted to create plants that had needle-like leaves.\u00a0 And, where there are plants with broad leaves, God wanted to create plants that had broad leaves.\u00a0 As to fossils, we could say that these are mysteries that God has placed in creation to test human beings\u2019 intelligence and acumen.<\/p>\n

Darwin offered another picture.\u00a0 He said: \u2018Let\u2019s take a different approach!\u00a0 We won\u2019t deny the existence of God but we\u2019ll imagine that His intervention is not that direct;\u00a0 we\u2019ll imagine that His intervention is behind-the-scenes, so to speak. Why don\u2019t we say that there\u2019s been a kind of adaptation to the environment where these phenomena are concerned?\u00a0 So, leaves are needle-like in warm climates because this prevents the evaporation of the water stored by the plants.\u00a0 If a creature is the same green colour as a tree, it\u2019s so that it will be safe from predators.\u2019\u00a0 We could say: \u2018God wanted this creature to be green,\u2019 or \u2018God wanted that plant\u2019s leaves to be needle-like.\u2019\u00a0 But it is also possible to say: \u2018In this world, creatures adapt to their environment.\u2019 This theory also serves to explain many things.\u00a0 For example, we can conclude that creatures that were unable to adapt became extinct.\u00a0 In this way, we no longer have to say: \u2018God decided to create some creatures at one point in time and, then, He changed His mind and decided to create some other creatures.\u2019<\/p>\n

This was Darwin\u2019s picture.\u00a0 In this picture, instead of attributing each individual event to God\u2019s will, we bring them all under a single heading, such as adaptation to the environment, for example.\u00a0 You can see that \u2018picture-based knowledge\u2019 has many applications in science.<\/p>\n

Let\u2019s return to our main subject.\u00a0 You can take each piece of data that I mentioned about the Prophet and revelation independently and attribute it, separately, to God.\u00a0 You can say: \u2018God wanted the Prophet to speak Arabic;\u2019 \u2018God wanted to speak about some events in the Koran and not to speak about some other events;\u2019\u00a0 and \u2018God wanted to give official recognition to some or most of the rulings that were current in Arab society and to endorse them and make Muslims duty-bound to act on them.\u2019\u00a0 In each instance, we can respond in this same way, \u2018God wanted it to be like this,\u2019 and not establish any link between them and not say that they all fall under a single picture.\u00a0 On this basis, we\u2019ll maintain the view that every single one of these phenomena was a product of God\u2019s direct will and that He must have deemed it best to act as He did in each instance.\u00a0 On the basis of this viewpoint, if God had wanted to and if He\u2019d deemed it best, he would have revealed the Koran to the Prophet in Greek.\u00a0 Then, the Prophet would have handed a Greek book to the Arabs and said: \u2018It was best like this!\u00a0 Go and learn Greek and read my book and use it to the extent that you understand it.\u2019\u00a0 But it was God\u2019s will to speak Arabic to His Prophet.\u00a0 This is one kind of explanation, which attributes events individually to the will of the Almighty and includes a hidden best interest\/benefit in everything which is beyond our ken but which was taken into account by God.<\/p>\n

We can also theorize differently, a theorizing very similar to what I present in The Expansion of Prophetic Experience<\/em> (inspired by Darwin\u2019s theory):\u00a0 Why don\u2019t we say about the phenomenon of revelation that there\u2019s an adaptation to the environment?\u00a0 So, we could propose the following explanation: \u2018Revelation is a phenomenon that adapts itself to the environment and takes on the colour of the environment in every way.\u2019\u00a0 We are using \u2018environment\u2019 in a general sense here, embracing the events that took place in Arab society at the time; the development of the Prophet\u2019s personality; occurrences in the course of the Prophet\u2019s life and the political and social conflicts that he encountered; the language spoken in the Prophet\u2019s society; and so on.\u00a0 This, too, is a picture that we can sketch.\u00a0 This model has placed all the pieces of data that I mentioned alongside one another, painted them all with the same brush and issued a single ruling for them.\u00a0 It doesn\u2019t make any of them, separately, hinge on God\u2019s will.\u00a0 I don\u2019t want to go into the philosophical reasons behind it all; otherwise, we could express all of this in the language of metaphysics and philosophy too.<\/p>\n

In\u00a0 The Expansion of Prophetic Experience <\/em>and the discussion of \u2018Essentials and Accidentals in Religion\u2019, I have in fact followed this second picture; i.e. adaptation to the environment.\u00a0 That is to say, I don\u2019t believe that God willed each of the phenomena that I mentioned individually and deemed that each one was best for some particular reason, which may or may not be conceivable to us.\u00a0 I haven\u2019t thought about it in this way.\u00a0 I chose a different route and this is how the theory of the expansion of Prophetic experience came about.<\/p>\n

I don\u2019t believe that God knew that this or that person would ask this or that question of the Prophet and had a verse prepared in advance, so that, the minute the person asked the question, the verse could be revealed to the Prophet on the spot.\u00a0 We can imagine instead that the Prophet would be asked a question and the very fact that the question had been asked produced that which was presented to the questioner as the answer.\u00a0 The same can be said of a specific ruling expressed in response to a specific event.<\/p>\n

So far, I\u2019ve set out the issue and explained that one can look at this aggregate of events in two different lights.\u00a0 Now, you may ask me: \u2018So who was Gabriel?\u2019\u00a0 The question of Gabriel and the way in which revelation came to the Prophet is a question of mechanics.\u00a0 I don\u2019t think that it changes the substance of the matter.\u00a0 Philosophers have offered various theories about the manner in which the supernatural or the metaphysical communicates with the natural or the physical.\u00a0 But this doesn\u2019t change the substance of the matter in any way.\u00a0 We\u2019re trying to explain the natural process here.\u00a0 I, at any rate, don\u2019t consider this an important problem in explaining the phenomenon of the Prophethood because the question of Gabriel concerns the metaphysical process.\u00a0 A great deal can be said about this; for example, that the means of sending revelation is an angel or whatever.<\/p>\n

So, when you look at the natural process, you\u2019ll see a kind of adaptation to the environment.\u00a0 And you can sketch the picture that I suggested for it.\u00a0 So far, I\u2019ve been speaking about the theory itself and the evidence that you can marshal for it.\u00a0 In response, some of our friends cite verses from the Koran to suggest that the theory may be incorrect.\u00a0 This evidence is worth hearing \u2013 in and of itself.\u00a0 At any rate, if our picture is a true and comprehensive picture, it has to explain this data from the Koran, otherwise it won\u2019t be significant and defensible.<\/p>\n

First, let me point out something about one of the important instances which was mentioned in those verses in connection with the historical issues that appear in the Koran.\u00a0 In fact, if you look carefully, you\u2019ll realize that the historical issues that are mentioned in the Koran are the historical issues with which Arabs were grappling.\u00a0 No mention is made in the Koran of a prophet by the name of Zoroaster.\u00a0 But, for example, a tribe by the name of the Magi, which lived in Iran at that time and had contacts with the Arabs, is mentioned once or twice.\u00a0 Most of the prophets who are mentioned in the Koran are Israelite prophets, whom the Arabs had heard of and were more or less familiar with.\u00a0 There is a verse which says: \u2018\u2026you pass by their ruins morning and evening,\u2019[10] meaning: you know about them, because they lived in your midst before and your ancestors were familiar with them, so you have some bits of information about them.<\/p>\n

No mention is made in the Koran of things that are happening in other parts of the world and the religions, sects and creeds that exist in other regions.\u00a0 I take this as evidence favouring the theory of adaptation to the environment and the idea that the verses are in keeping with the Arab environment of the time.\u00a0 Sometimes, when we\u2019ve participated in dialogues between religions, we\u2019ve come across this point.\u00a0 The Christians say that the Christian beliefs that are mentioned in the Koran are not the beliefs of all Christians and that their view about the Trinity is not at all what you read in the Koran; that which is in the Koran is the view of a particular tribe which lived in Arabia at the time of the Prophet.<\/p>\n

I remember a session in Birmingham, in Britain, seven or eight year ago \u2013 which was also attended by some ulema from Qom.\u00a0 There, a Jesuit happened to ask me: \u2018If we don\u2019t subscribe to the view stated in the Koran, are we still unbelievers as far as Islam is concerned?\u00a0 We don\u2019t say that God is the Third of Three and most Christians don\u2019t hold to this kind of Trinity.\u2019[11]\u00a0 I told him: \u2018No, in that case, you can\u2019t be considered unbelievers on the basis of what the Koran has said.\u2019\u00a0 As it happened, one of the Qom ulema, Ayatollah Ma\u2019refat, was there too and he said:\u00a0 \u2018If you don\u2019t say this, then the verdict of unbelief doesn\u2019t apply to you.\u2019<\/p>\n

In recounting the beliefs of other groups of people, the Koran has presented precisely the beliefs that were current in Arab society at the time and it has not in any way referred to the varieties within these beliefs \u2013 for example, within Judaism. You can say in this respect: \u2018There must have been a good reason why God believed that that specific Christian sect\u2019s belief was, as a matter of fact, much more important than other Christians\u2019 beliefs and that\u2019s why He put His finger on it and recounted that specific belief.\u2019\u00a0 It is possible to say this.\u00a0 But it would be more reasonable and more natural for us to say that, just as the Arabic language, which was the language spoken in the Prophet\u2019s environment, is reflected in the Koran, so too are these beliefs, because they existed in that environment; or this or that event, because it occurred in that environment. In this way, we\u2019ve preserved and strengthened the idea that the Koran was in keeping with the environment and the notion of a dialogue-like relationship with the environment and the people.<\/p>\n

Hence, the first point is that all the prophets who\u2019ve been mentioned in the Koran and whose religions and miracles have been spoken about in the holy book are prophets and religions who were known to the Arab society of the day;\u00a0 they were not totally alien to that environment and to the Arabs\u2019 beliefs and acquaintance.<\/p>\n

The second point is that, when we discuss revelation, we\u2019re engaging in a discussion that is external to revelation;\u00a0 we\u2019re looking, from the outside, at an event known as revelation, which occurred in Arab society and in the Prophet\u2019s consciousness.\u00a0 If we offer evidence in support of or against a particular contention, all the evidence must be external to revelation; to refer to something within revelation in order to prove or disprove a contention about it is methodologically unsound.\u00a0 In other words, you can\u2019t appeal to this or that verse that was uttered by the Prophet or say that this or that verse is inconsistent with that theory.\u00a0 The theory that we would have offered from outside revelation would apply equally to all the verses, as long as the theory is correct.\u00a0 Then, if it is correct, we have to annotate the verses on the basis of the theory and annotate them in a way that does not alter the theory.<\/p>\n

In fact, the conflict doesn\u2019t exist even on the face of\u00a0 things.\u00a0 Move down a step from the process of revelation and look at the process of dreaming.\u00a0 What\u2019s your impression of dreaming?\u00a0 Sometimes you dream that someone comes to you and tells you something and teaches you something that you seem not to have known otherwise.\u00a0 They may recite a poem to you and you may remember the poem when you wake up.\u00a0 They may even tell you about an event in the future and that event may actually occur.\u00a0 In other words, it might be a true dream.\u00a0 All these things do occur and it\u2019s not something bizarre or inconceivable.\u00a0 It was the same with the Prophet.\u00a0 We have a religious narrative that cites the Prophet as saying that a true dream is one of the 46 elements of prophethood.<\/p>\n

Revelation and dreams are made of the same fabric.\u00a0 If you want to understand what revelation is, you should turn to its friend and companion, i.e. dreams, and cross-examine it.<\/p>\n

Al-Ghazzali said somewhere that devils, too, convey revelations to people:\u00a0 \u2018The devils inspire [make revelations to] their friends to dispute with you.\u2019[12]\u00a0 Devils\u2019 revelations appear at times of temptation.\u00a0 Al-Ghazzali said: \u2018If you want to know what revelation is, take a close look at the satanic temptations that you sometimes feel.\u00a0 By looking at them, you can get a slight sense of what revelation is like,\u2019 because the Koran itself has used the same word for devils\u2019 revelations.[13]<\/p>\n

When Satan tempts us, it is as if He is making a revelation to us.\u00a0 We\u2019re not prophets and we become targets of satanic temptations.\u00a0 The enticements and internal conflicts that we sometimes feel, inclining us to commit improper deeds, are in fact revelations of a kind.\u00a0 What does this revelation do to you?\u00a0 It makes something appear before your eyes and places theories in your mind which make you think that some deeds are good, because people are drawn towards deeds that they\u2019ve justified in their minds in one way or another.\u00a0 You\u2019ll never do something which you, at the same time, consider totally wrong and reprehensible.\u00a0 When someone commits a sin, they\u2019ve turned a reprehensible deed into a good deed in their own minds and provided some kind of a justification for it. This is what satanic temptations – which, according to Al-Ghazzali, are of the same fabric as revelation \u2013 do to people.<\/p>\n

In order to understand revelation well, try analysing the temptations that you sometimes feel.\u00a0 When there\u2019s something bad that you\u2019re really tempted to do, look closely at what is drawing you towards that bad deed.\u00a0 See the kind of pretexts that you devise, the tortuous justifications that you come up with, the extents that you go to convince yourself.\u00a0 You marshal all your knowledge, all your theories and all you mental reserves to turn a deed that you shouldn\u2019t commit into a deed that you should commit.\u00a0 For example, when you want to speak ill of someone behind their back or when you want to trample on someone\u2019s right, and so on.\u00a0 Of course, once someone indulges in these kinds of deeds a few times, they won\u2019t even need Satan\u2019s inspiration any more, because, by continuing this behaviour, the individual sinks into temptation and doesn\u2019t need to be tempted by anyone any longer.<\/p>\n

By the same token, just as the analogy of \u2018satanic revelation\u2019 is derived from the Koran, prophets were subject to \u2018angelic temptations\u2019.\u00a0 They would have true dreams.\u00a0 Virtuous ideas would be awakened within them and, then, they would undergo discoveries and veils would fall away from their eyes.<\/p>\n

In fact, remove the expression \u2018prophetic experience\u2019 and replace it with \u2018prophetic discovery\u2019. Prophetic experience is nothing but this.\u00a0 Bear in mind that some people may not have a very good understanding of \u2018experience\u2019.\u00a0 Our mystics have used the term \u2018discovery\u2019 extensively.\u00a0 \u2018The complete Muhammadan discovery.\u2019\u00a0 The Prophet discovered truths and secrets, but his discovery was a complete discovery, in the sense that it was not hazy.\u00a0 He would see secrets or truths clearly and comprehensively.\u00a0 Others, too, discover things, but their discovery is not complete; it is partial and hazy.<\/p>\n

When the Prophet undergoes discoveries, he gradually attains a transformed personality that perceives things clearly.\u00a0 He sees everything clearly, understands their implications and speaks about them. And it is perfectly fine if, when someone is speaking about something, at times, it seems to them as if someone is whispering these things into their ear or that they are seeing someone.\u00a0 And this is what we call revelation in the strict sense of the word.\u00a0 The notion that \u2018this was a lover who could do no wrong\u2019 applies in every respect here.\u00a0 In other words, because the Prophet had a polished, honed, fortified and exalted personality, all his words sprang from a fount that was pure and pristine.<\/p>\n

All this taken together explains what I said about revelation complying with the Prophet.\u00a0 That is to say, it was in keeping with the Prophet\u2019s personality, in keeping with the Prophet\u2019s language, in keeping with the Prophet\u2019s environment, in keeping with the events that occurred in the Prophet\u2019s lifetime, in keeping with the temperament and mind of his people, in keeping with their proverbs, in keeping with the meaning that they\u2019d poured into their words, in keeping with the capacity of their language and outlook.\u00a0 In effect, revelation would adapt itself to these things.\u00a0 As Rumi put it, when the sea is poured into a jug, the sea per force complies with the jug.[14]\u00a0 The sea doesn\u2019t stop being the sea, but what reaches us is what\u2019s in the jug and, unavoidably, the sea complies with the jug\u2019s dimensions and capacity.\u00a0 How could it be otherwise?\u00a0 At the end of the day, if the sea wants to come into our house, it has to enter our house in these kinds of containers.\u00a0 If the sea wants to be our guest, it has to fit itself into our containers.[15]<\/p>\n

Our share of the sea depends on the containers that we take to it.\u00a0 This is what it means to say that revelation complies with the Prophet\u2019s personality, environment, life and external and internal experiences.\u00a0 Another way of saying this is that the supernatural\/metaphysical basically can\u2019t enter the natural\/physical unless it takes on the characteristics and temperament of the physical.\u00a0 The supernatural can\u2019t step into the natural unless it is poured into natural containers and manifests itself in a natural form.<\/p>\n

It seems to me very natural that the Prophet of Islam had dreams \u2013 or something like dreams –\u00a0 whereby the tale of prophets were recounted to him.\u00a0 Prophets were very privileged and fortunate people, because those who told them these tales told true tales.\u00a0 That is to say, we believe that these tales were true.\u00a0 If you ask anyone who doesn\u2019t believe in revelation, they won\u2019t be of this view.<\/p>\n

Let me also say something about religious rulings.\u00a0 My impression is that the legislator of the rulings of fiqh was the Prophet.\u00a0 The Prophet himself was the lawmaker in these cases and, of course, God endorsed the Prophet\u2019s lawmaking.\u00a0 The Prophet\u2019s fundamental concern in lawmaking was to move the rulings and laws of his society from \u2018the injustice of the day\u2019 to \u2018the justice of the day\u2019 \u2013 not an ahistorical justice.\u00a0 In other words, to take society away from what was considered injustice at the time and to direct it towards what was considered justice at the time.<\/p>\n

In our religious rulings, the custom and practice of the Prophet\u2019s society have been taken very seriously.\u00a0 But we have no reason to believe that the custom and practice of the Prophet\u2019s society was the best possible custom and practice in history.\u00a0 There was no other option after all.\u00a0 A set of conventions had to be taken for granted and rulings made on the basis of that model.\u00a0 But this doesn\u2019t mean that that set of conventions was the best or that it contained the best regulations, or that the best history or the best understanding of being were to be found there, or that the best scientific theories were current then.\u00a0 Not at all!<\/p>\n

Any prophet had to carry out his task with the concepts that existed in the society of his day, just as he had to fight with a sword \u2013 not with tanks and artillery, because there were no tanks and artillery.\u00a0 He couldn\u2019t invent concepts that didn\u2019t exist yet and to teach them to people or ask people to use concepts that weren\u2019t available yet.\u00a0 Hence, the rulings of fiqh are temporary unless proven otherwise.\u00a0 All the rulings of fiqh are temporary and belong to the Prophet\u2019s society and societies like it, unless proven otherwise, in the sense that there would have to be definite reasons demonstrating that they had been legislated for all times and not just for those particular conditions.\u00a0 Of course, I know that most faqihs are of the opposite view; that is to say, they believe that all the rulings are eternal unless proven otherwise.\u00a0 But if my analyses are correct, we have to accept the consequences and implications.<\/p>\n

Q. The simple society of one thousand four hundred years ago, the custom and practice of which wasn\u2019t necessarily the best custom and practice, received messages, which led it to achieve a kind of spiritual, psychological, economic and social excellence.\u00a0 The question is: Of what benefit are those messages to us?\u00a0 In fact, if every prophet brings a message for the society of their own time \u2013 in keeping with the geography, culture and mental development of the people of their own age \u2013 then, what is the substantive meaning of Muhammad being \u2018the Seal of the Prophets\u2019?\u00a0 After all, he brought a law for his own time which, as it happened, was suited to that time but may not be applicable today.\u00a0 And perhaps 80 per cent of those teachings have no applicability for our society today.\u00a0 And it is the same with other prophets.\u00a0 So, there\u2019s no need for us to call these figures prophets at all.\u00a0 Whenever a great reformer, with dedication to humanity, has appeared, they have taken society forward, but this was limited to their own time and is not applicable to other societies because their messages are temporary not permanent.\u00a0 Is that right?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

At the same time, based on your theory, the notion that what was permissible [halaal<\/em>] according to Muhammad is permissible until the end of time and what was impermissible [haraam<\/em>] according to Muhammad is impermissible until the end of time no longer holds.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

The other point is that, on the one hand, the Koran is a holy book, and, on the other hand, this same Koran was revealed to a society, environment and culture which has now changed and which was different from our culture.\u00a0 The question is:\u00a0 What kind of holy book can the Koran be for us today?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

And where do God\u2019s bounds fit into the theory of the expansion of prophetic experience?\u00a0 Given that the Koran states: \u2018These are the bounds of God,\u2019 and given that some of these bounds [hudud<\/em>] and social rulings \u2013 such as on divorce or fasting \u2013 are stipulated in the Koran, how can you explain this based on the picture that you sketched?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Moreover, on the basis of this way of looking at the Koran, monotheism would need to be construed in a different way.\u00a0 It would also seem that, on the basis of your theory, anyone can become a messenger and a prophet and lead a society.<\/strong><\/p>\n

A.\u00a0 First, as I\u2019ve said in The Expansion of Prophetic Experience<\/em>, too, prophetic experience – or experiences similar to prophets\u2019 experiences – does not cease and always exists.\u00a0 Even if we don\u2019t take the course of rational argumentation, Shi\u2019is, at least, hold this view of the infallible Imams.\u00a0 They believe that although they weren\u2019t prophets and didn\u2019t have the mission of prophethood, they did have prophetic experiences and the experience of discovering things about the world.\u00a0 Hence, even on the basis of Shi\u2019i reasoning, the pronouncement about prophetic experience and its continuation is an official pronouncement and Shi\u2019i theology fully endorses it.\u00a0 In Sunni literature, too, although they don\u2019t recognize any infallible religious leaders apart from the Prophet, they do believe that mystics have this capacity.<\/p>\n

As to whether anyone can become a prophet, we have to concede that someone may become a prophet to their own mind and undergo particular states, raptures and elations.\u00a0 But Islamic society will deal harshly with such individuals if they stake a claim to prophethood.\u00a0 When the Prophet said, \u2018There will be no prophets after me,\u2019 he was ordering his followers to close this gate and not to believe anyone who claimed prophethood thereafter.\u00a0 And he also advised people who experienced this condition not to communicate it to anyone.\u00a0 Anyone may \u2013 in their own personal relationship with God \u2013 have particular experiences and feel that they have been assigned particular duties by God and that they no longer have a duty to comply with this or that religion.\u00a0 I have the impression that some distinguished figures \u2013 such as Shams-e Tabrizi \u2013 experienced conditions close to this.\u00a0 But they never claimed to be prophets or to have their own particular religions and rulings.\u00a0 They would keep it all to themselves and respect outward appearances.\u00a0 Hence, they fall outside the scope of our discussion.<\/p>\n

Everyone has their own personal relationship with God and will be held accountable for it. If anyone feels that they can no longer follow the religion of the Prophet of Islam and have some other duty, this is between themselves and God.\u00a0 And people who don\u2019t have this feeling will also be held accountable for their actions.\u00a0 Nevertheless, prophet-like experiences obviously continue because the manifestations of God never end.\u00a0 We can\u2019t say that God manifested Himself to the Prophet of Islam and that this gate was closed forever thereafter.\u00a0 This manifestation is perpetual and it will continue to be experienced by people in keeping with their capacities.<\/p>\n

As to your question about how the Prophet can be of any use to us if all that can be said about him is that he lived at a particular time and said good things and sparked constructive developments, and that there was no shortage of such good reformers and the Prophet of Islam was one of them – but of what use is he to us?\u00a0 Look, we can say this about any great reformer or thinker;\u00a0 this isn\u2019t something that\u2019s confined to prophets.\u00a0 The fact that the Koran is of use to us does not mean that we should take someone out of their own time and transport them to some other time.\u00a0 This is precisely what we mean by ijtihad<\/em> [formulating judgments about religious matters on the basis of reason and the principles of fiqh].\u00a0 It means that you should be able to breathe life into the past, not that you should repeat things in a parrot-like fashion.\u00a0 We do this in all areas of thought.\u00a0 Whenever it\u2019s a question of following some school of thought, we operate in this way.\u00a0 Regardless of whose follower you choose to be, you can\u2019t, at any rate, behave exactly as they do.\u00a0 You have to translate their actions into your actions.\u00a0 This translation is the same thing as practising ijtihad<\/em>.<\/p>\n

The next point is:\u00a0 Exactly what about the Prophet are we are meant to be following?\u00a0 That which formed the kernel of the Prophet\u2019s religion and characterized his mission were the initial messages that he brought to his people.\u00a0 First and foremost, the Prophet brought a new world-view.\u00a0 Then he wove a code of moral conduct and laws around this world-view. In other words, religion was a three-storey building or a three-layered aggregate.\u00a0 If you look at the Meccan verses, which were the first to be revealed to the Prophet, you\u2019ll see that the main emphasis is on monotheism and the hereafter, and, alongside God and the hereafter, there are also moral recommendations.\u00a0 First, obey God: \u2018So let them worship the Lord of this House.\u2019[16]\u00a0 And then there are verses about those who \u2018forbid almsgiving\u2019[17] and prevent care for the poor and so on.\u00a0 The rulings relating to fiqh were not revealed in Mecca but, later, in Medina.\u00a0 These rulings are religion\u2019s outermost layer, which was added to religion last of all.\u00a0 And the Arabs, who gained strength from the Prophet\u2019s call and creed, extended it and took it to other countries and stole other people\u2019s hearts. \u00a0This stealing of people\u2019s hearts was not related to the rulings of fiqh.\u00a0 We mustn\u2019t imagine that it was the fact that the Prophet was able to bring regulations concerning menstruation and childbirth and rulings on slave-owning, marriage and divorce that astounded other societies;\u00a0 what captivated the Arabs and enraptured others was those same main, core messages of Islam. The Prophet\u2019s prime message was that we should worship God.<\/p>\n

In response to what you said about that which is permissible according to Muhammad, I have to say that it\u2019s true that that which was permissible according to Muhammad is permissible until the end of time and that which was impermissible is impermissible until the end of time, but the whole question is: What are <\/em>this permissible and impermissible?<\/p>\n

For 12 centuries, Shi\u2019i faqihs did not perform Friday prayers.\u00a0 Some of them simply considered it impermissible. This is in circumstances in which Friday prayers are stipulated in the Koran.\u00a0 Although they believed that that which is permissible according to Muhammad is permissible until the end of time, they still said: Friday prayers are impermissible for the time being in view of the absence of an infallible Imam.\u00a0 Don\u2019t ever look at the appearance of phrases and concepts.\u00a0 There is a clear ruling on Friday prayers in the Koran: \u2018Believers, when you are summoned to Friday prayers, hasten to the remembrance of God.\u2019[18] Most Shi\u2019i faqihs \u2013 with rare exceptions during the Safavid period \u2013 had suspended this ruling and did not perform it.\u00a0 And some of them even believed that performing it was impermissible.\u00a0 In our own time and in many other times, faqihs have suspended the implementation of Islamic punishments [hudud<\/em>].\u00a0 The late Khansari believed that sentences such as cutting off offenders\u2019 hands or beheading offenders should not be implemented.\u00a0 He used to say that these sentences did not relate to our day.<\/p>\n

So, it\u2019s true that Muhammad\u2019s permissible is permissible until the end of time, but considering something permissible or impermissible hinges on provisos and conditions and someone may believe that these provisos and conditions no longer hold and say that we should wait until the end of time.\u00a0 As you said, the Koran states: \u2018These are the bounds of God.\u2019\u00a0 Correct!\u00a0 But the whole question is when and under what conditions and on the basis of what criteria must God\u2019s bounds [hudud<\/em>] be observed.\u00a0 We always have to practise ijtihad <\/em>afresh.\u00a0 This is the crux of ijtihad<\/em>.\u00a0 This is what Shah Vali Allah of Delhi meant by his remark when he said: \u2018The Prophet built a society because he could not do otherwise.\u2019\u00a0 In fact, the Prophet acknowledged in this way that he would have proceeded in the same way in the midst of any other people.\u00a0 Hence, we, too, must model ourselves on him. But this is not to say that we must copy things in a parrot-like fashion. Everyone has to think carefully about how these general principles should be implemented in their own society and in their own day. The value of the Prophet\u2019s actions is the value of a model, not the value of something that remains uniform for all time.\u00a0 Of course, I accept that our faqihs usually don\u2019t think like this and don\u2019t act and issue fatwas on this basis.\u00a0 But, when you examine the Prophet\u2019s work historically and in depth, you realize that he brought about a change in his own society.<\/p>\n

Since we\u2019ve accepted the Prophet\u2019s call and teachings, we think that he has nothing more to say to us and that we\u2019ve accepted what he had to say; whereas the relationship between a disciple and a guide \u2013 like the relationship between a patient and a doctor \u2013 is always dialectical.\u00a0 When the doctor examines a patient, he gives him medicine and treats him, and the patient gradually becomes well.\u00a0 Then, this healthy patient cannot claim, Since I\u2019m healthy, I don\u2019t need a doctor.\u00a0 We have to say to him, You\u2019re the same person who needed a doctor when he was ill.\u00a0 But the relationship between a doctor and a patient is basically such that the doctor tries to overturn the doctor-patient relationship so that the patient doesn\u2019t remain ill.\u00a0 It\u2019s the same in the teacher-student relationship, where the teacher tries to overturn the relationship so that the student doesn\u2019t remain a student forever and becomes a learned person.<\/p>\n

The Prophet appears in a society that has a misshapen identity and strives to change this identity.\u00a0 When the identity does change, the people shouldn\u2019t say: \u2018We don\u2019t need you anymore since we now have the identity that you wanted us to have.\u2019 Our need for the Prophet is for him to shatter our former identity and to give us the gift of a new identity so that we\u2019ll continue to have this identity.\u00a0 It is the same over the subsequent generations.\u00a0 In other words, whenever a deviation arises, they have to refer to that initial model again and rectify themselves.\u00a0 Of course, in religiosity, our relationship with prophets is not merely a relationship with their teachings;\u00a0 it is a relationship with their personalities too.\u00a0 This is the meaning of spiritual dominion, which we aren\u2019t discussing now.\u00a0 But the Prophet\u2019s fundamental teachings are in the realms of beliefs, morality and laws.\u00a0 The slightest of the Prophet\u2019s teachings are the fiqh-related teachings and rulings, which, as it happens, form the most accidental part of religion.\u00a0 The most historical part of religion and the outermost layer of religion, as an aggregate, are the rulings of fiqh.<\/p>\n

Q.\u00a0 Based on the theory of the expansion of prophetic experience, the Prophet was a human being like other human beings; he had experiences and, over time, these experiences grew, expanded and were perfected. So far so good.\u00a0 But if we also include the Koran in these growing and expanding experiences, then problems arise.\u00a0 The main problem that comes to mind is that it has been said about the revelation made to the Prophet that it took place on a single occasion.\u00a0 In other words, based on the Qadr Sura, the Koran was revealed on the Night of Qadr [Night of Destiny].\u00a0 But this seems to be inconsistent with your theory or, at least, we can\u2019t fit it into the theory.<\/p>\n

A.\u00a0 Look, when we speak about revelation and God\u2019s words, we assume a particular metaphysics.\u00a0 It is very important what this metaphysics is.\u00a0\u00a0 I had the feeling from your remarks that you were suggesting that, if we say that the Koran consists of the Prophet\u2019s words then this or that problem will arise; whereas if we say that it consists of God\u2019s words, then things will turn out differently.\u00a0 I really don\u2019t know how and where you place this distance between God and the world.\u00a0 A metaphysics that puts such a distance between God and His creatures must, first, state its presuppositions and, second, state its reasons.\u00a0 In the picture that I sketch, in terms of the cosmology and the question of God and His creatures and the relationship between the two, I don\u2019t recognize this kind of distance, nor should one recognize it.\u00a0 What I mean to say is that there is no such verdict in the Islamic world-view or at least in Islamic philosophy.\u00a0 We must be completely clear about this.<\/p>\n

In something written by one of our ulema, I saw that it had been said that the voice that Moses heard from the tree came from outside the tree, not from the tree itself.\u00a0 This is an astounding thing to say.\u00a0 Where God is concerned, there\u2019s no difference between inside the tree and outside the tree.\u00a0 To speculate about whether this voice, this revelation emanated from within the Prophet or whether it was inculcated from without only means something in relationship to us.\u00a0 We are the ones who speak in terms of within and without and see a difference between the two.\u00a0 When it comes to God, whom we believe is everywhere – and no place is more suited to Him than another and no place is closer to Him than another – it makes no difference whether we say that God spoke from within the Prophet or from without the Prophet.\u00a0 As Rumi put it, tallness and shortness pertain to us; it is meaningless to think in these terms about God.[19]<\/p>\n

Length, width and depth, and near and far relate to physical objects and the world of physical objects. Neither these dimensions of space nor dimensions of time, such as past and present, make any sense in relation to God.\u00a0 We don\u2019t have morning and night when it comes to God.\u00a0 That is to say, there\u2019s no past and present.[20]<\/p>\n

Length and width, and near and far don\u2019t apply to God.\u00a0 God is inside the Prophet just as much as He is outside the Prophet.\u00a0 Gabriel, too, is inside the Prophet just as much as outside the Prophet.\u00a0 The idea that an angel flaps its wings like a bird or a praying mantis and comes to the Prophet is not right.\u00a0 As I said, the metaphysical encompasses the physical and this encompassing is completely pervasive and it doesn\u2019t distinguish between one location and another.\u00a0 Hence, Gabriel or God is just as much inside the Prophet as outside.\u00a0 A human being\u2019s spirit doesn\u2019t have an inside or an outside anyway.<\/p>\n

When we speak about inside and outside and distances between things, we\u2019re speaking about physical objects.\u00a0 We need to alter our mental image here.\u00a0 In other words, we need to abandon the model that we\u2019ve obtained from the world of physical objects.\u00a0 This isn\u2019t a suitable model and may lead us astray and distort the image and the picture that we have of what takes place in the world and in the metaphysical world.\u00a0 It is the same with Gabriel and the angel who is said to have brought revelation to the Prophet.\u00a0 Even the people who say this – and philosophers – believe that an angel has no face and no form.\u00a0 The world of angels is not the world of appearances and ghosts and bodies.\u00a0 Hence, the form and the face that it takes are in the Prophet\u2019s mind, not real (I\u2019ve mentioned this in The Expansion of Prophetic Experience<\/em>).<\/p>\n

Rumi said that, when Mary saw the angel, the angel told her that he was a very complicated being; that he was both within and without; that he was both objective and subjective; both an external fact, like a crescent in the sky, and not an external fact, like an imaginary notion in the mind.[21]\u00a0 In other words, in relation to the angel, inside and outside were one and the same.\u00a0 He was not like other things; not like this room or this piece of fruit where you can speak of inside or outside.\u00a0 In other words, he was telling her not to think in terms of these models, because they didn\u2019t apply.<\/p>\n

Anyhow, we need to have a correct sense of the way that the metaphysical encompasses the physical.\u00a0 All of the physical\/natural is in the heart of the metaphysical\/supernatural and no part of the metaphysical is closer to or further away from the physical; it is always equidistant to the physical\/natural.\u00a0 And first and foremost this applies to God, and we\u2019re not concerned with the rest of the metaphysical just now, because there may be disagreement over it.\u00a0 But, when it comes to God, there can be no disagreement and this verdict is definite.<\/p>\n

Let\u2019s imagine that God\u2019s words are those that Gabriel conveys to the Prophet, not what the Prophet thinks for himself.\u00a0 Then, we still have to ask ourselves:\u00a0 Who conveys these words to Gabriel?\u00a0 Does another angel whisper the words into Gabriel\u2019s ears or does Gabriel understand some things for himself and find words ready-made in his mind and, then, act as a mediator and convey them to the Prophet?\u00a0 In the end, we have to stop somewhere and believe that a being arrives at some notions in an unmediated way and recognizes that these notions are godly.\u00a0 Now, if you don\u2019t assume that the Prophet is a being of this kind, who hears words in an unmediated way, you have to arrive at a point in the chain where there\u2019s no mediator.\u00a0 We can\u2019t say that Gabriel, too, has his own Gabriel and that that Gabriel has another Gabriel ad infinitum.\u00a0 In this system and in this mental model, we have to reach a point where we say that a being (call the being what you will) is in the possession of some notions and recognizes that these notions are godly. According to Koranic verses, there are several kinds of revelation: \u2018It belongs not to any mortal that God should speak to him, except by revelation, or from behind a veil, or that he should send a messenger and he reveal whatsoever He will, by His leave.\u2019[22]<\/p>\n

These are all varieties of revelation:\u00a0 Direct revelation, mediated revelation and unmediated revelation.\u00a0 This is correct.\u00a0 But the point is that this mediated-ness alone is not the criterion for godliness.\u00a0 I don\u2019t deny that revelation may be mediated but mediated-ness must not be taken as the criterion for godliness.\u00a0 The Prophet himself may arrive at a thought or a judgment or a discovery (I prefer to use the word \u2018discovery\u2019) and this discovery may be godly and it may be called revelation.\u00a0 There\u2019s nothing wrong with this. What the mechanism is for arriving at this discovery doesn\u2019t really affect the substance of revelation.\u00a0 It makes no difference what the mechanism is.\u00a0 You can say, an angel tells him.\u00a0 You can say, the Prophet himself had special qualities.\u00a0 I\u2019ve brought all these things under the heading of the Prophet having God\u2019s endorsement.\u00a0 The Prophet was a being whose thinking was under God\u2019s supervision and was guided by God.\u00a0 And the words that he spoke were completely methodic, systematic and under special guidance.\u00a0 I don\u2019t think there\u2019s any problem in this respect.<\/p>\n

In sum, we don\u2019t have any problem with the godliness of revelation.\u00a0 When we say that revelation was related to the Prophet\u2019s time and place, to the history and the age, none of this detracts from its godliness, because it means that the Prophet, under God\u2019s guidance, said what God wanted him to say at any particular point in time and on any particular occasion.<\/p>\n

Godliness doesn\u2019t mean that whatever someone says and whatever they do is beyond time and place \u2013 this is supernatural-ness.\u00a0 You\u2019re speaking about supernatural-ness and supernatural-ness is different from godliness.\u00a0 Nature is godly too; as is the metaphysical\/supernatural.\u00a0 Godliness is broader than supernatural-ness.\u00a0 Yes, the metaphysical\/supernatural is beyond time and place.\u00a0 That is to say, if we were angels, we\u2019d obviously have a different relationship to the world.\u00a0 And now that we\u2019re within time and place, we have a different relationship.\u00a0 But we\u2019d be godly in either case.\u00a0 That is to say, whether we were angels or human beings, we\u2019d still be God\u2019s creations and, in either case, the reins of our affairs, our existence and our survival would be in His hands.<\/p>\n

The Prophet\u2019s work, his existence, his revelation, his mission are all godly.\u00a0 In other words, they\u2019re under God\u2019s supervision and guidance.\u00a0 But they aren\u2019t beyond time and place, because the Prophet himself wasn\u2019t beyond time and place.\u00a0 After all, the Prophet appeared in a particular century, not in all centuries.\u00a0 He appeared in a particular place, not in all places.\u00a0 He was born to a particular mother and father, not to all mothers and fathers.\u00a0 He spoke in a particular language, not in all languages.\u00a0 He was speaking with a particular group of people, not with all people.\u00a0 And so on and so forth.<\/p>\n

Since the Prophet was bound by a body, he\u2019d stepped into the world of nature and everything in the world of nature is per force natural.\u00a0 In other words, it carries the stamp of naturalness on its forehead and does not transgress this boundary; it isn\u2019t supernatural.\u00a0 Even the spirit, which is believed by philosophers to be metaphysical\/supernatural, has become natural once it has entered this world.\u00a0 In other words, it has become entrapped by the body.\u00a0 If the spirit wants to see, it has to see through these same physical eyes and, if it wants to hear, it has to hear through these physical ears.\u00a0 Philosophers believe that the spirit can hear.\u00a0 And the spirit is not a body.\u00a0 It doesn\u2019t have ears, eyes and legs.\u00a0 But, when it comes to this world, its conduct is bound by our limbs and bodies; it can\u2019t act independently.<\/p>\n

Our spirit can\u2019t fly.\u00a0 If we go travelling, our spirit travels with us and, if we don\u2019t, it doesn\u2019t either.\u00a0 It\u2019s not as if the spirit says, I\u2019m a celestial and supernatural being and I disregard these physical restrictions.\u00a0 It is the same with revelation.\u00a0 According to the picture drawn by the Koran, Gabriel, too – whenever he appeared to the Prophet and wished to speak to him – spoke in Arabic, not in every language.\u00a0 In other words, the angel, too, accepted nature\u2019s restrictions.\u00a0 The angel, too, would go to Hijaz, in Arabia, to speak to the Prophet, not to some other continent.\u00a0 What I mean to say is that the angel accepted that the Prophet was under certain restrictions and that he, too, would therefore have to submit to these restrictions.\u00a0 This is the general metaphysics of revelation.<\/p>\n

So, we have to remember that, in all these discussions, there\u2019s a presupposition that we mustn\u2019t overlook.\u00a0 The presupposition is that we are in the world of nature and everything about us is natural.\u00a0 Everything about us has the colour and characteristics of nature. Everything bears the stamp of time, place, era and environmental conditions.\u00a0 But this by no means entails that the relevant body is not godly and that it is human through and through.\u00a0 It doesn\u2019t negate God\u2019s guidance and supervision.<\/p>\n

On the question of whether the Koran was revealed on a single occasion or over time, as a matter of fact, as I said, one of the positive results of the theory of the expansion of prophetic experience is that it allows these two versions to coexist easily and straightforwardly; whereas other people run into many difficulties on this issue.\u00a0 It\u2019s been said that the Koran descended once to the worldly firmament, once to the immortal mansion; that it descended on the Night of Qadr and that it then, gradually, descended from the immortal mansion to the Prophet\u2019s heart.\u00a0 Very strange things have been said which don\u2019t even have any clear meaning.<\/p>\n

When it is said that the Koran was revealed all at once it means that the Prophet\u2019s personality became Koranic on the Night of Qadr.\u00a0 The Night of Qadr was the night on which the Prophet attained his quest.\u00a0 The Prophet lived an abstemious life for about 40 years and, at the age of 38 \u2013 or 40 according to some accounts \u2013 he suddenly became enlightened, like the Buddha, on a single night.\u00a0 He received a revelation and the veils suddenly fell away from his eyes.\u00a0 The Prophet saw that night, which fell in the month of Ramadan, as the Night of Qadr and he later gave it this name. That night was in fact his own night of destiny, the night of union, the night on which he arrived at his destination and became a prophet.\u00a0 It was the night on which all his asceticism and effort bore fruit.<\/p>\n

The Prophet used to go to a cave on Mount Hira for retreats and he would sleep there.\u00a0 I can picture it well.\u00a0 He would gaze at the star-filled sky and sink into thought.\u00a0 Suddenly, one night, everything lit up.\u00a0 It was his Night of Qadr and his night of union.\u00a0 It was the night on which the Koran was revealed to him and he declared it the Night of Qadr for evermore.\u00a0 The Prophet understood very well that the Night of Qadr was \u2018worth a thousand months\u2019. If you endure a thousand months of asceticism to arrive at a night like this, this night will be worth those thousand months.\u00a0 \u2018A thousand months\u2019 simply conveys the sense of multitude; he could just as easily have said \u2018a thousand years\u2019.\u00a0 So, if you endure austerity for a long time, work hard and keep waiting until, one night, the beloved comes to you, then that night is the Night of Qadr and the night of union.<\/p>\n

On that night, the Prophet, in effect, became Koranic.\u00a0 In this sense, the Koran was revealed to him in its entirety.\u00a0 He became a personality from which the Koran henceforth emanated.\u00a0 His personality became a wealth on which he could draw for the rest of his life.\u00a0 Hence, this Koran was revealed to the Prophet all at once.\u00a0 In other words, the Prophet became a prophet all at once and, then, he gradually spent this wealth and conveyed to the people the verses of the Koran as they came to him.\u00a0 In the other construals that I mentioned, combining these two versions of events cannot be achieved clearly and meaningfully.<\/p>\n

Q.\u00a0 There are verses in the Koran that clearly convey a sense that there is something outside the Prophet, constantly watching and supervising him and constantly cautioning him about any kind of departure from the given model.\u00a0 For example, the admonitions that I mentioned: \u2018He frowned and turned away,\u2019 \u2018and had We not confirmed thee, surely thou wert near to inclining unto them a very little,\u2019 and \u2018perchance thou art leaving part of what is revealed to thee\u2019.[23]\u00a0 Or where the Prophet is asked not to move his tongue before the revelation is completed.\u00a0 In other words, the intention is to halt, in a way, the normal functioning of memory and memorizing in the Prophet.\u00a0 In this way, he\u2019s told:\u00a0 Entrust yourself fully to our words.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Another point is that you said somewhere that, since the Koran expanded over time, it could have been much longer than it is.\u00a0 In other words, based on your construal, if more events had occurred in the Prophet\u2019s life, then, the Koran would have been longer. \u00a0And people have said in reaction to this that the Koran could, therefore, also have been shorter;\u00a0 if, for example, the Prophet had lived fewer years or had experienced fewer events.\u00a0 These people have asked you, in turn, to say what \u2018Today I have perfected your religion for you and I have completed my blessing upon you,\u2019[24] means.\u00a0 The common interpretation of this verse is that, at one point, the Koran says, Today, what We have revealed to you has been completed.\u00a0 This completion means that the process had to reach this point; in other words, today, when it has reached this point, it has been completed.\u00a0 Hence, if it was any shorter than it is, then \u2018Today I have perfected your religion for you,\u2019 would not have occurred.\u00a0 So, surely, the Koran had to have a specific length in order to be perfect and complete?<\/strong><\/p>\n

A.\u00a0 As you said, there are phrases in the Koran that are addressed directly to the Prophet.\u00a0 You mentioned a few of them, but there are many more.\u00a0 However, I don\u2019t understand in what way this is inconsistent with what I said.\u00a0 No one is denying that the Koran was revealed to the Prophet or that the Prophet felt that someone was speaking to him.\u00a0 Even people inferior to prophets have feelings of this kind, never mind about prophets.\u00a0 You and I may have dreams in which we see someone speaking to us.\u00a0 It has happened to me many times.\u00a0 Someone may recite a poem to me. And I\u2019ve written some of these poems down later.\u00a0 The poems are not my poems.\u00a0 They aren\u2019t anyone else\u2019s poems either.\u00a0 They are entirely new.\u00a0 In other words, I can attribute them to myself, because they haven\u2019t been composed by anyone before!\u00a0 Be that as it may, they\u2019ve been composed by someone who has recited them to me in my dreams.<\/p>\n

Or take the conjuring up of spirits.\u00a0 It has happened many times.\u00a0 You\u2019ve seen the Arabic book The Human Being is a Spirit not a Body<\/em>.\u00a0 It\u2019s an important book, published in two volumes.\u00a0 It describes the different types of contacts with spirits.\u00a0 It begins with a very long ode.\u00a0 The author of the book, who is a professor at the Ayn al-Shams University in Egypt, has written that, after the death of Ahmed Shawqi, the Egyptian master poet, they conjured up his spirit and the spirit recited a long ode, which appears in the book.\u00a0 He writes that they presented the ode to Arab literary experts.\u00a0 They all confirmed that it could only be by Shawqi.\u00a0 The ode did not exist before Shawqi\u2019s spirit was conjured up and no one else could have composed it.<\/p>\n

What the mechanism is for conjuring up spirits doesn\u2019t concern us now. \u00a0If the above story is true, it means that, in an incident that was not a normal incident \u2013 that is to say, it wasn\u2019t speaking or thinking or composing poetry as we normally know it \u2013 someone has conveyed to the mind of a mediator, who wasn\u2019t in a normal state, some material in the form of a poem; a very eloquent and excellent poem, which we can now read. What I\u2019m saying is that this part of it is nothing extraordinary.\u00a0 It happens to ordinary people too.<\/p>\n

The Arabs themselves believed at the time of the Prophet that poems were conveyed to poets\u2019 minds by mediators. Mr. Nasr Hamid Abu-Zayd, who has been subjected to many attacks in Egypt, has a good book by the name of Mafhum al-Nass<\/em>.\u00a0 He\u2019s spoken in this book about this same idea of the historicity of the Koran.\u00a0 One of the main points he makes is that many of the concepts that appear in the Koran are concepts with which the Arabs were familiar.\u00a0 I\u2019ve made the same point in \u2018The Prophetic Mission and the Crisis of Identity\u2019.\u00a0 So, the Arabs did not quarrel with the Prophet over these things.\u00a0 In other words, when the Prophet said, I receive revelations and an angel brings these revelations, no one was surprised and they didn\u2019t tell the Prophet, in protest, that he was saying strange things.\u00a0 They believed that such things did occur.\u00a0 They believed that poets received revelations and that something like an angel or a devil revealed poems to poets.\u00a0 So, they weren\u2019t at all surprised and didn\u2019t quarrel with the Prophet over this.\u00a0 It was all very natural and acceptable to them.<\/p>\n

Perhaps ordinary Arabs \u2013 or at least some of them \u2013 had similar experiences.\u00a0 That someone should feel that they are being spoken to, admonished, ordered, encouraged or discouraged to do or not to do something – there\u2019s nothing surprising about this and it occurs in ordinary life too.\u00a0 We simply look at it differently in the Prophet\u2019s case because we consider him a Prophet.\u00a0 If we didn\u2019t consider him a Prophet, we\u2019d attribute it to his imagination, in the way we do with ordinary people.\u00a0 But since we consider him a Prophet, we believe that the states that he experienced were under God\u2019s supervision and guidance;\u00a0 that it had been ordained that people would receive counsel and guidance via this man; and that, by and large, history was to be guided in a particular direction.\u00a0 But the basic fact of the matter is comprehensible and non-problematic.<\/p>\n

Q.\u00a0 Was it a kind of soliloquy, whereby the Prophet murmured to himself?<\/strong><\/p>\n

A.\u00a0 No, it\u2019s not a soliloquy.\u00a0 As I said, when you see someone speaking to you in your dream, we can\u2019t call it a soliloquy.\u00a0 In many instances, what is being said is unexpected.\u00a0 You aren\u2019t the actor, you\u2019re the recipient.\u00a0 That is to say, something happens to you without your volition.<\/p>\n

When we say that these things were linked to the Prophet\u2019s personality, it doesn\u2019t mean that he used to invent them himself; it means that they were linked to his capabilities and his spiritual wealth.<\/p>\n

Q.\u00a0 In fact, the Prophet\u2019s undergoes an illumination, which constantly pervades him and directs him.\u00a0 Is that no so?<\/p>\n

A. Yes.<\/p>\n

Q.\u00a0 The numerical wonder of the Koran \u2013 of course, some of it may be disputed \u2013 but a large part of it is indisputable and shows that there are certain laws involved.\u00a0 Part of this wonder, by the name of the numerical wonders, has been discovered for us and people have managed to uncover it, but there may be many others which have yet to be discovered.\u00a0 Can we say that God wanted some of these things to be revealed in this form and to be presented and preserved in this same form or not?<\/p>\n

A.\u00a0 What do you mean when you say, God wanted it?\u00a0 The fact that God wanted it or didn\u2019t want it doesn\u2019t explain anything here.\u00a0 If the Koran had 10,000 verses instead of the 6,000 and a bit verses that it has now, we\u2019d still say that God wanted it to be 10,000 verses.\u00a0 If, instead of 6,000, it had 600 verses, we\u2019d still say that God wanted it to be 600 verses.\u00a0 We have no way of knowing what God wanted.\u00a0 This \u2018God wanted it\u2019 is always a kind of explanation after the event or, as philosophers of science put it, a post hoc explanation.\u00a0 If we could offer an explanation before the event and then compare the event with our explanation after it had actually occurred, then, we could draw a tangible conclusion.<\/p>\n

What do we say about nature now?\u00a0 We believe that nature was created by God.\u00a0 The angle of a light ray\u2019s incidence and the angle of reflection are equal in nature now.\u00a0 If they were unequal, we\u2019d still say that God wanted it this way.\u00a0 I mean that this theory of God wanted it like this won\u2019t solve anything.\u00a0 This goes back to the relationship between science and metaphysics.\u00a0 If this relationship is thoroughly clarified, then, some of these questions will be answered; otherwise, not.\u00a0 Don\u2019t ever use, the will of God, what God wanted and so on as theories for explaining natural events.\u00a0 The relationship between God\u2019s will, God\u2019s knowledge and all of God\u2019s attributes with all natural phenomena is equal.<\/p>\n

Scientific explanations are not explanations after the event; they explain what ought to happen before it happens.\u00a0 On the basis of the theory of the equality of a ray\u2019s angle of incidence and angle of reflection, we say that the next time you shine a light at a 50-degree angle, the angle of reflection will definitely be – and has to be – 50 degrees.\u00a0 But we can never say such a thing about God\u2019s will and God\u2019s knowledge and His other attributes.\u00a0 There have been 124,000 prophets.\u00a0 We say that it was God\u2019s will that there should have been 124,000 prophets.\u00a0 If there had been 125,000 prophets, we\u2019d still say that it was God\u2019s will that there should have been 125,000.\u00a0 And if there had been only 100 prophets, we\u2019d still say that that was God\u2019s will and what God wanted.<\/p>\n

In a book written by one of our clerics, the author asks: Why were there 12 Shi\u2019i Imams?\u00a0 Then, he answers his own question by saying: Because God\u2019s intention was fulfilled with 12 Imams.\u00a0 I wrote to him and said: What kind of answer is this!\u00a0 If there had been 17 Imams, you\u2019d still say the same thing:\u00a0 Why were there 17 Imams?\u00a0 Because God\u2019s intention was fulfilled with 17 Imams!<\/p>\n

You can\u2019t explain anything by saying that it was God\u2019s will.\u00a0 This is an important point.\u00a0 I\u2019m not saying that God\u2019s will is not involved;\u00a0 I\u2019m saying that it can\u2019t be used to explain events.\u00a0 If the Prophet had lived half as many years as he did, we\u2019d say that it was God\u2019s will that it should have been like that. If he\u2019d lived twice as long as he did, if there had been more verses than there are, if there had been fewer verses, however things were, we\u2019d still say, It was God\u2019s will.<\/p>\n

Even if the traits that we attribute to the Koran \u2013 for example, the numerical accords and relationships between the verses \u2013 did not exist, we\u2019d still say, God wanted it like this. We\u2019re not going to get anywhere with this kind of answer and notion, and we\u2019re not going to establish anything in this way.\u00a0 If you like, after whatever I say, you can just add, \u2018God wanted it like this\u2019 or \u2018It was God\u2019s will\u2019;\u00a0 this will solve your problem.<\/p>\n

So, let me say, If it had been God\u2019s will, then Koran would have been longer than it is. Unless you maintain that it\u2019s impossible for God to have willed it other than it is.\u00a0 Then, I would say to you, Have you ever been a god or a god\u2019s assistant?\u00a0 Otherwise, how does one know that God willed anything to be other than what it is?\u00a0 If God had willed it, the Koran would have been longer.\u00a0 If God had willed it, the Koran would have been shorter.\u00a0 If this \u2018It was God\u2019s will\u2019 makes you happy, just place it after all my theories and the problem will be solved and finished.\u00a0 But do bear in mind that this \u2018It was God\u2019s will\u2019 provides a false gratification. You shouldn\u2019t resort to it.\u00a0 You should just look at the natural phenomenon of the birth of the Koran.\u00a0 Of course, however it was born, you could say that it was God\u2019s will for it to be born like that.\u00a0 And there\u2019s nothing wrong with saying this.<\/p>\n

When it comes to the Prophet, the Koran and the materialization of revelation, there\u2019s no problem regardless of the way in which we speak about the natural circumstances of these events, because the underlying assumption is that the ceiling of God hangs over all of them.\u00a0 However the Koran had turned out, it would still have been under God\u2019s supervision.\u00a0 If it didn\u2019t have the traits that it now has, it would still have been God\u2019s will.\u00a0 And now that it does have them, it\u2019s still God\u2019s will.<\/p>\n

In order to know that an utterance is godly, we have to look at its contents and substance; at the tell-tale scent of revelation, in the way that, as I said, Al-Ghazzali detects it.\u00a0 This is our guide and it is this that\u2019s lasting.\u00a0 This is what someone has to convey to us as the lesson that the Teacher has given us. We believe that God also had other prophets, who were lesser prophets than the Prophet of Islam.\u00a0 Well, this, too, is God\u2019s will. We believe that their revelations did not have the strength that the Prophet of Islam\u2019s revelation has.\u00a0 So, God can send revelations that are less strong and less comprehensive than the Koran.\u00a0 This, too, is God\u2019s will.\u00a0 In other words, if the Koran\u2019s scope and perfection were less than they are now, we\u2019d still be able to say that that\u2019s how God wanted it.\u00a0 And now that they are as they are, it is still how God wanted it.<\/p>\n

As to the question about the perfection and completeness of the Koran and the Al-Ma\u2019ida verse that states, \u2018Today I have perfected your religion for you and I have completed my blessing upon you,\u2019\u00a0 I\u2019ve explained about this verse in The Expansion of Prophetic Experience<\/em>. Yes, religion has a stage of perfection, but this stage relates to religion\u2019s essentials, not its accidentals.\u00a0 In other words, the Koran could have been much shorter than it is and still achieve perfection, because the Koran\u2019s accidentals don\u2019t play a role in its perfection.\u00a0 That is to say, if the Prophet had fought fewer wars than he had by the time this verse was revealed or if, for example, the tale of the accusation levelled against Aisha had never happened and had not appeared in the Koran, the Koran would have been no less perfect.<\/p>\n

The Prophet\u2019s mission and the conveyance of the message were completed and perfected when the main messages of the Koran had been conveyed.\u00a0 Of course, there are also accidentals, which may or may not have been included without harming the Koran\u2019s perfection. And, as you said, there were many other accidentals at the time of the Prophet which don\u2019t appear in the Koran.\u00a0 The Koran wasn\u2019t meant to be a comprehensive chronicle of everything that happened after all.\u00a0 Things that were related to the message or could help explain the message or sensitive questions and events have been included \u2013 and some have not been included; but the Prophet\u2019s main message had to be included.<\/p>\n

In fact, it seems that the Prophet generally proceeded in the following way:\u00a0 he would begin with the beliefs; then, he would put a coating of morality over the beliefs; and, then, a legal\/fiqhi coating over that.\u00a0 See for yourself:\u00a0 in Mecca, the first verses that the Prophet brought were about monotheism, God and the hereafter.\u00a0 Great emphasis was placed on these two issues.\u00a0 Alongside this, some moral issues were also highlighted:\u00a0 \u2018Woe to those who pray but are heedless of their prayers, who make a show of piety but forbid almsgiving.\u2019[25]\u00a0 These kinds of instructions didn\u2019t have a legal\/fiqhi dimension at all.<\/p>\n

The Prophet\u2019s message was, in fact, completed when these three layers of religion were presented in brief and not in a very expanded form and at length.\u00a0 The Prophet\u2019s work in Medina largely consisted of laying the legal foundations, lawmaking and specifying the secondary principles of religion to the required extent.\u00a0 Hence, religion was perfected, in the sense that its design was perfected, not in the sense that all its particular components were put in place; exactly like when a building\u2019s design and structure have been determined.\u00a0 But no one has said that all the particulars were revealed to the Prophet or that the perfection of religion implied an all-embracing scope.<\/p>\n

Moreover, many commentators are of the view that this was not the last verse that was revealed to the Prophet and that there were many verses after this.\u00a0 If perfecting meant that there should be no more verses thereafter, why were more verses revealed after the verse about the perfection and completion of religion?\u00a0 Hence, the perfecting was a perfecting of the essentials.\u00a0 In other words, the main structure of religion had been presented in brief and religion was a three-layered structure.\u00a0 In the centre, there is a kernel consisting of beliefs and a world view; over this, there is a coating of morality;\u00a0 and, then, over these two layers, there is a coating of laws and fiqh.\u00a0 And they were all made of the fabrics that existed in that age.\u00a0 The two latter layers were, according to the construal of our mystics, a shell;\u00a0 like an oyster shell for protecting the kernel or the pearl that lies inside.\u00a0 They serve as the protectors.\u00a0 And the protection is necessary both to prevent the kernel from falling into the hands of the unworthy and to pass it on to future generations.<\/p>\n

In this way, the Prophet\u2019s mission was completed.\u00a0 That is to say, he put the structure at the people\u2019s disposal.\u00a0 And, in the words of the late Shah Vali Allah, this structure is a model;\u00a0 i.e. future generations must work on the structure with ijtihad<\/em>.\u00a0 They must take their basic model from the Prophet and build the rest themselves.<\/p>\n

Q.\u00a0 Can we say that that part of the Koran or religion that falls under the essentials is not time- and place-bound, but that that part of it that falls under the accidentals is time- and place-bound?<\/p>\n

A.\u00a0 It depends on what you mean by time and place.\u00a0 If by time and place you mean utterances that relate to a particular period in time, then, yes, it is as you say.\u00a0 There are some utterances that belong to a particular period in time and, when that period passes, the utterances become dated.\u00a0 But this isn\u2019t what I mean when I speak of the Koran being time-bound and place-bound.\u00a0 When I say that the Koran is historical, I mean that its entire birth and genesis took place in particular historical circumstances, and that all its roots and veins are in its own age, whether its essentials or its accidentals; in this sense, there is no difference between the two.\u00a0 And my model is the Arabic language; both the Koran\u2019s essentials and its accidentals have been expressed in Arabic.<\/p>\n

No author or thinker can escape the tools and instruments of their own time.\u00a0 The Prophet had to use these concepts and moulds.\u00a0 He didn\u2019t have any choice.\u00a0 He expressed everything in the language and in the culture of the time.\u00a0 When we speak about essentials and accidentals, we don\u2019t mean that some are transient and others aren\u2019t;\u00a0 the accidentals, too, may be of permanent use.\u00a0 But what we have to do is to carry out a cultural translation.<\/p>\n

The essentials are the Lawmaker\u2019s main intentions.\u00a0 The accidentals were the incidents and events that occurred, and sometimes it was necessary that they should be mentioned and a conclusion drawn from them.\u00a0 But both the essentials and the accidentals can always teach us things, on the condition that we carry out a cultural translation.<\/p>\n

Here, essentials and accidentals don\u2019t mean non-transitory and transitory or time- and place-bound. What we mean is that, when a creature comes into being, it cannot be unneedful of the elements of its own time. It cannot step into the arena of existence without benefiting from these elements.\u00a0 Future generations must be aware of this point so that they can strip off the coating and pull out the pearl that is hidden inside.\u00a0 This is what it means when it is sometimes said that they must be treated as myths, but we don\u2019t use this term now.<\/p>\n

Q.\u00a0 Based on what you\u2019ve said, why must we be duty-bound by the practices \u2013 social practices and practices relating to worship – that prophets decreed?\u00a0 If we arrive at that formless and undefined matter ourselves in a different age, we may, naturally, discover other things.\u00a0 For example, why must we, in the 20th<\/sup> century, perform the ritual prayer in the way that the Prophet did?\u00a0 We can sit and meditate \u2013 and there are many different ways of meditating and achieving spiritual rapture these days.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Or why do we need to fast like the Prophet did?\u00a0 We can purify ourselves by other means.\u00a0 If we arrive at that formless matter ourselves, can we establish duties for ourselves or must we still abide by the duties decreed by the Prophet?\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

If the Prophet had received his prophetic mission a hundred or a thousand years later, we wouldn\u2019t have the things that we have in the Koran today, except for the points about monotheism and the hereafter, of course.\u00a0 In other words, the social practices would be different and, naturally, the Koran would be different. Hence, since we don\u2019t live in the time of the Prophet, we can have other duties.\u00a0 In other words, we can change the social practices and, in view of the fact that we don\u2019t live in the Prophet\u2019s time today, we can have other duties and laws.\u00a0 But would these laws still be godly?<\/strong><\/p>\n

A.\u00a0 The question of rites and rituals, laws, customs and manner of worship has a long tale, and, of course, the theory of the expansion of Prophetic experience doesn\u2019t touch on this one way or the other.\u00a0 In other words, I haven\u2019t entered into this debate.\u00a0 You can\u2019t extract anything from the theory of the expansion of Prophetic experience that suggests that fiqh is or is not lasting, or that it can or cannot be put into practice today.\u00a0 In order to establish this, we\u2019d need to turn to other premises and preliminaries. It depends on our take on the nature of fiqh and the Lawmaker\u2019s intention.<\/p>\n

Fiqh has been subdivided in different ways.\u00a0 The way I subdivide it is like this:\u00a0 1. The things that fall under the heading of justice and injustice are categorized as Islamic social practices.\u00a0 In other words, when you can say that this or that deed, this or that conduct, this or that reaction is just or unjust \u2013 anything that can take this adjective falls under the heading of social practices, political practices, etc.; in other words, they\u2019re not considered to be practices that relate to worship;\u00a0 2.\u00a0 the things that do not fall under the heading of justice and injustice are called acts of worship or practices relating to worship.\u00a0 Of course, this is not how faqihs subdivide things, but, in order to say what I want to say, I have to use these categories.<\/p>\n

Take food and drink, for example: the rulings about what we are allowed to eat and drink and what we aren\u2019t allowed to eat and drink; what is allowed [halaal<\/em>] and what is not allowed [haraam<\/em>].\u00a0 These don\u2019t fit under the heading of justice and injustice.\u00a0 It is a matter of personal duties and knowing what to eat and what not to eat.\u00a0 Here, it is a question of practices that relate to worship.\u00a0 The hajj, prayers, fasting, ablutions and so on fall into this category.<\/p>\n

On the practices relating to worship, if we\u2019ve understood well the meaning of the prophethood, things proceeded in the following way:\u00a0 First, the Prophet reached certain states of excellence and perfection; then, these states led him to perform particular practices;\u00a0 then, he taught us these practices so that we could attain those states.\u00a0 In other words, what were effects in the Prophet\u2019s case become causes for us.<\/p>\n

Imagine that some thoughts take hold in your mind which lead you to withdraw from others, to lower your head and eyes, maybe even to shut your eyes.\u00a0 You sit in silence for a while and want others to be silent too in order to resolve what is happening in your mind and, then, to go back to your normal state.\u00a0 In fact, your silence, your withdrawal and so on are the effects of those thoughts.\u00a0 When those thoughts take hold and enthrall you, that kind of behaviour naturally follows.\u00a0 Then, afterwards, you come and teach me.\u00a0 You say, If you want to think correctly, you must really concentrate, you must be silent, you must sit silently somewhere, you mustn\u2019t allow distracting thoughts into your mind.\u00a0 In other words, you propose as causes to me the things that were effects for you.\u00a0 This was not the starting point for you.\u00a0 In your own case, it is the strong mental state that automatically takes your mind away from all distractions.\u00a0 It is the thoughts in your head that make you fall silent.\u00a0 But, because you\u2019ve had this experience, you tell me, If you want to achieve clear thoughts, if you want to resolve a problem, concentrate, be silent, withdraw to a quiet place and so on.<\/p>\n

For example, when you are deep in thought, you don\u2019t even think about drinking or eating.\u00a0 And, then, you may say to me, If you want to think well and solve problems well, don\u2019t eat very much and so on.\u00a0 You present to me as a cause that which was the effect of your experience.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You advise me to adopt this kind of behaviour so that I attain that state.<\/p>\n

To put it much more simply, prophets attained certain states of excellence.\u00a0 Then, they discovered some acts of worship.\u00a0 Subsequently, they told us to perform these acts of worship so that we could attain those states.\u00a0 In other words, acts of worship were effects for prophets but, for us, they are causes that produce those states of excellence.<\/p>\n

As the disciples of prophets, we need these experiences very much, because one meaning of being a disciple of a prophet is to partake in their experiences.\u00a0 It was the Prophet\u2019s experience that fasting was an excellent practice.\u00a0 Fasting exists in all religions.\u00a0 Or that drinking alcoholic drinks is very bad \u2013 this exists in all religions.\u00a0 Even in Buddhism, alcoholic drinks are forbidden.\u00a0 All these venerable individuals had realized that alcoholic drinks impede exalted spiritual experiences.\u00a0 All these venerable individuals had realized that you need to be empty of food if you want to be filled with spiritual light.<\/p>\n

So, we need the prophets.\u00a0 In fact, it is probably in this sphere that we need them most.\u00a0 They\u2019ve placed special worship-related experiences before us and told us, Follow these paths!\u00a0 Rising in the middle of the night to perform acts of worship was something that all the prophets did.\u00a0 No great man of spirituality ever achieved anything without such vigils.\u00a0 In the Koran, too, God says to the Prophet: \u2018Keep vigil all night, save for a few hours; half the night or even less, or a little more. And, with measured tone, recite the Koran, for we are about to address to you words of surpassing gravity.\u00a0 It is in the vigils in the night that impressions are strongest and words most eloquent.\u2019[26]<\/p>\n

These night-time occurrences are more durable.\u00a0 In the night, there is silence and the mind can concentrate; the attachments that tie down the spirit during the day fall away or loosen and one is much more receptive to messages and to more powerful and clearer discoveries.\u00a0 This is what the Prophet commands.\u00a0 This is a command that has been given to all prophets or a discovery that has been made by all prophets.\u00a0 They\u2019ve realized themselves that there are gifts to be received in the dark of the night: \u2018In the day-time, you are hard pressed with the affairs of this world.\u2019[27] At night, when these affairs abate and when people leave you in peace, you must perform your main task.<\/p>\n

These are things that we must learn from the prophets.\u00a0 In the sphere of acts of worship, there are hidden interests and benefits.\u00a0 In other words, mechanisms are proposed to us and we don\u2019t know why they take the form that they do and why they produce particular results.\u00a0 But, since some individuals have experienced these things, we respect their experiences.<\/p>\n

However, it is a completely different matter when it comes to justice and injustice.\u00a0 In setting out the social rulings that relate to justice and injustice, the Prophet took the people of his own age from that day\u2019s injustice to that day\u2019s justice, from that day\u2019s ignorance to that day\u2019s knowledge; not from the day\u2019s injustice to ahistorical justice, not from the day\u2019s ignorance to ahistorical knowledge.\u00a0 This is what the Prophet did, in effect, in the legal, social and political rulings and everything relating to justice and injustice. This is what all prophets have done.\u00a0 However, here, it is the model that is important to us.\u00a0 In some cases, we follow the Prophet\u2019s model and, in other cases, we follow his exact experience; it all depends on the category.<\/p>\n

On women\u2019s rights, men\u2019s rights, inheritance, blood money, talion, everything relating to politics, the state, social rulings, buying and selling, marriage, divorce and everything relating to fiqh, what the Prophet did in effect was to push aside what was described as injustice in his day and to present something that was recognized as justice in his day.\u00a0 Justice and injustice are entirely time-bound.<\/p>\n

To put it in a different, more general way, there are no hidden benefits in Islam\u2019s socio-political rulings; all the benefits are visible.\u00a0 In other words, no one can say, Do this but don\u2019t concern yourself with its benefits.\u00a0 Socio-political rulings have visible benefits and, if no benefits are visible, the relevant ruling is null and void.\u00a0 This is a fallacy committed by some of our faqihs.\u00a0 When they\u2019re asked, Sir, why is this or that law on women\u2019s rights or inheritance or politics as it is? – they reply, Why do the ritual prayers take the form that they do? \u00a0In other words, they suggest that, just as we accept the prayers in the form that they are without asking why \u2013 and it will become clear on Judgment Day what the benefits were \u2013 it is the same when it comes to politics, the state, commerce and so on; whereas this is not the case.\u00a0 These two things fall into two different categories.\u00a0 The worship-related practices have hidden benefits and don\u2019t fall under the heading of justice and injustice.\u00a0 In the case of buying and selling and the like, there are no hidden benefits and they fall under the heading of justice and injustice; they have visible benefits.<\/p>\n

We want commerce and politics for this world.\u00a0 No one call tell us, Do whatever you\u2019re told in the name of religion and submit to it, even if you\u2019re crushed by it, because its benefits will become clear on Judgment Day. This is an unacceptable thing to say.\u00a0 Here, too, we must practise ijtihad<\/em>. That is to say, we must go from our time\u2019s injustice to our time\u2019s justice. This is the way in which we need the prophets.<\/p>\n

<\/strong>Translated from the Persian by Nilou Mobasser<\/em><\/p>\n

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[1] The 111th<\/sup> sura in the Koran.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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[2] Al-Nur, 11.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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[3] Al-Najm, 5-7.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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[4] Al-Takwir, 19-21.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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[5] Al-Qiyamah, 16-17.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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[6] Abasa, 1.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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[7] Al-Isra, 74.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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[8] Hud, 12.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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[9] We were in the Netherlands recently and this issue came up there.\u00a0 As you know, in Al-Ahzab Sura, there are many verses about the Prophet\u2019s wives and his family.\u00a0 In one verse, God says the following about the women whom the Prophet may marry: \u2018We have made lawful for thee\u2026 any woman believer if she gives herself to the Prophet and if the Prophet desire to take her in marriage, for thee exclusively, apart from the believers.\u2019\u00a0 This verse was revealed at a time when a woman had given and presented herself to the Prophet.\u00a0 In some of our religious narratives, Aisha has been quoted as saying to the Prophet when this verse was revealed: How well God looks after you; how quickly He sends verses that are pleasing to you.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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[10] Al-Saffat, 137.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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[11] The Koran states: \u2018They are unbelievers who say, \u201cGod is the Third of Three.\u201d\u2019 (Al-Ma\u2019idah, 73)<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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[12] Al-An\u2019am, 121.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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[13] Ibid.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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[14] Mathnawi<\/em>, Vol. 2, 20.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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[15] It has been said that God asked a beggar who\u2019d been raised from the dead on Judgment Day: \u2018What have you brought?\u2019\u00a0 The beggar said:\u00a0 \u2018O God!\u00a0 When we were in the world, whenever we asked your miserly servants, they\u2019d give us nothing and say: \u201cGod will provide, God is munificent.\u201d\u00a0 Now that we\u2019re here, you\u2019re asking us what we\u2019ve brought,\u00a0 but we\u2019ve come here to receive!\u2019 God replied:\u00a0 \u2018No, I didn\u2019t mean what have you brought in that sense.\u00a0 I meant what size container have you brought, so that we know how much to give you.\u00a0 Have you brought a jug?\u00a0 Have you brought a pouch?\u00a0 Have you brought a sack?\u2019<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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[16] Quraysh, 3.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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[17] Al-Ma\u2019un, 7.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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[18] Al-Jum\u2019ah, 9.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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[19] Mathnawi<\/em>, Vol. 4, 533.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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[20] On this placelessness and timelessness, see, for example, Mathnawi<\/em>, Vol. 3, 1151-52.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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[21] Mathnawi<\/em>, Vol. 3, 3773.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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[22] Al-Shura, 51.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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[23] See footnotes 7-9 above.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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[24] Al-Ma\u2019idah, 4.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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[25] Al-Ma\u2019un, 3-7.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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[26] Al-Muzammil, 2-6.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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[27] Ibid, 7.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

An interview with Abdulkarim Soroush \u00a0About the Expansion of Prophetic Experience ** This interview took place on 10 August 2000 and was published in the (now-banned) journal Aftab, No. 15, April-May 2002. \u00a0In an article entitled \u2018The Expansion of Prophetic Experience\u2019, Abdulkarim Soroush suggested, among other things, that, as the Prophet\u2019s experience grew over time, […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"ngg_post_thumbnail":0},"categories":[3],"tags":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/drsoroush.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/152"}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/drsoroush.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/drsoroush.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/drsoroush.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/drsoroush.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=152"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"http:\/\/drsoroush.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/152\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/drsoroush.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=152"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/drsoroush.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=152"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/drsoroush.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=152"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}